282F39313F286F631A3D373B3336743935375A0 wrote:
First of all, I don't see them trading Harrison or Mercer. Both are signed at a very reasonable rate. Harrison had a bit of a down year, but he is a very productive player normally for what he is paid. Though he plays stupid sometimes, he is the best attitude on the team. If a certain three OFers played with his intensity, they'd place 1, 2, and 3 in the MVP race. :)
........
I really think the most likely trade is one of the OFers. It would be a blockbuster for this franchise. I don't think NH will give one away, but now is the time to trade one and not lose out on much. I don't like trading Polanco because I think he could be the next MVP out of them. I would be OK trading Marte or McCutchen for a young starting pitcher. They could easily hide Bell in the OF.
This time last year I was sure 2017 and 18 would be the Pirates WS years. Now I have my doubts. With the limited financial flexibility available to Neal, is the core of this team good enough to build around? I now have my doubts.
The 2016 Pirates underachieved in many places (players, manager, GM and owner). Maybe they will bounce back in 2017, but it was a problem of heart too often and I'm not sure you bounce back from that.
I don't think the Pirates can add to this team and field a WS team. In fact, if Cole and Glasnow continue to struggle this team will simply be fighting for .500 again.
The Pirates either enter the season hoping for lots of luck, or they start making moves with their roster that aren't all driven by finances.
Last year, of all the units, the OF easily underperformed the most. The "best outfield in baseball" looked anything but that. And frankly, questions about attitude are most concerning. But there is a TON of value that can be unlocked. Time to deal from strength.
Trade Marte and Cutch in return for a good young 1st base (a Wil Myers), one young high potential major league ready starting pitcher, one #4 type guy and prospects. Resign Sean Rodriguez (here's a FA signing they can afford) to play CF, and move Bell to a corner OF.
Trade Harrison for another #4/5 guy and move Frazer to 2nd.
With the $$ saved from trading Cutch and Polanco resign Nova.
And here's the most controversal: trade Cole in return for a Kings ransom. Including a solid #3 and high end prospects.
Outfield: Bell, Rodriguez, Polanco
Infield: a Wil Myers clone, Frazer, Mercer, Kang, Cervilli
Rotation: Tallion, young gun from Marte/Cutch trades, Nova, and a host of ligit 3-5 guys from trades and internal.
Plus a restocked farm.
It's cute you think another team would give up something of value for Harrison. The Pirates would need to include something of value in order for another team to take Harrison and his contract.
2017 Outlook
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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rucker59@gmail.com
2017 Outlook
7B5B4855543A0 wrote:
First of all, I don't see them trading Harrison or Mercer. Both are signed at a very reasonable rate. Harrison had a bit of a down year, but he is a very productive player normally for what he is paid. Though he plays stupid sometimes, he is the best attitude on the team. If a certain three OFers played with his intensity, they'd place 1, 2, and 3 in the MVP race. :)
........
I really think the most likely trade is one of the OFers. It would be a blockbuster for this franchise. I don't think NH will give one away, but now is the time to trade one and not lose out on much. I don't like trading Polanco because I think he could be the next MVP out of them. I would be OK trading Marte or McCutchen for a young starting pitcher. They could easily hide Bell in the OF.
This time last year I was sure 2017 and 18 would be the Pirates WS years. Now I have my doubts. With the limited financial flexibility available to Neal, is the core of this team good enough to build around? I now have my doubts.
The 2016 Pirates underachieved in many places (players, manager, GM and owner). Maybe they will bounce back in 2017, but it was a problem of heart too often and I'm not sure you bounce back from that.
I don't think the Pirates can add to this team and field a WS team. In fact, if Cole and Glasnow continue to struggle this team will simply be fighting for .500 again.
The Pirates either enter the season hoping for lots of luck, or they start making moves with their roster that aren't all driven by finances.
Last year, of all the units, the OF easily underperformed the most. The "best outfield in baseball" looked anything but that. And frankly, questions about attitude are most concerning. But there is a TON of value that can be unlocked. Time to deal from strength.
Trade Marte and Cutch in return for a good young 1st base (a Wil Myers), one young high potential major league ready starting pitcher, one #4 type guy and prospects. Resign Sean Rodriguez (here's a FA signing they can afford) to play CF, and move Bell to a corner OF.
Trade Harrison for another #4/5 guy and move Frazer to 2nd.
With the $$ saved from trading Cutch and Polanco resign Nova.
And here's the most controversal: trade Cole in return for a Kings ransom. Including a solid #3 and high end prospects.
Outfield: Bell, Rodriguez, Polanco
Infield: a Wil Myers clone, Frazer, Mercer, Kang, Cervilli
Rotation: Tallion, young gun from Marte/Cutch trades, Nova, and a host of ligit 3-5 guys from trades and internal.
Plus a restocked farm.
It's cute you think another team would give up something of value for Harrison. The Pirates would need to include something of value in order for another team to take Harrison and his contract.
Oh. Thanks for letting us know. Why don't you just tell us how all of this is going to work out do we don't have to brother you any further.
First of all, I don't see them trading Harrison or Mercer. Both are signed at a very reasonable rate. Harrison had a bit of a down year, but he is a very productive player normally for what he is paid. Though he plays stupid sometimes, he is the best attitude on the team. If a certain three OFers played with his intensity, they'd place 1, 2, and 3 in the MVP race. :)
........
I really think the most likely trade is one of the OFers. It would be a blockbuster for this franchise. I don't think NH will give one away, but now is the time to trade one and not lose out on much. I don't like trading Polanco because I think he could be the next MVP out of them. I would be OK trading Marte or McCutchen for a young starting pitcher. They could easily hide Bell in the OF.
This time last year I was sure 2017 and 18 would be the Pirates WS years. Now I have my doubts. With the limited financial flexibility available to Neal, is the core of this team good enough to build around? I now have my doubts.
The 2016 Pirates underachieved in many places (players, manager, GM and owner). Maybe they will bounce back in 2017, but it was a problem of heart too often and I'm not sure you bounce back from that.
I don't think the Pirates can add to this team and field a WS team. In fact, if Cole and Glasnow continue to struggle this team will simply be fighting for .500 again.
The Pirates either enter the season hoping for lots of luck, or they start making moves with their roster that aren't all driven by finances.
Last year, of all the units, the OF easily underperformed the most. The "best outfield in baseball" looked anything but that. And frankly, questions about attitude are most concerning. But there is a TON of value that can be unlocked. Time to deal from strength.
Trade Marte and Cutch in return for a good young 1st base (a Wil Myers), one young high potential major league ready starting pitcher, one #4 type guy and prospects. Resign Sean Rodriguez (here's a FA signing they can afford) to play CF, and move Bell to a corner OF.
Trade Harrison for another #4/5 guy and move Frazer to 2nd.
With the $$ saved from trading Cutch and Polanco resign Nova.
And here's the most controversal: trade Cole in return for a Kings ransom. Including a solid #3 and high end prospects.
Outfield: Bell, Rodriguez, Polanco
Infield: a Wil Myers clone, Frazer, Mercer, Kang, Cervilli
Rotation: Tallion, young gun from Marte/Cutch trades, Nova, and a host of ligit 3-5 guys from trades and internal.
Plus a restocked farm.
It's cute you think another team would give up something of value for Harrison. The Pirates would need to include something of value in order for another team to take Harrison and his contract.
Oh. Thanks for letting us know. Why don't you just tell us how all of this is going to work out do we don't have to brother you any further.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
2017 Outlook
I would love Wil Myers, but not sure he is available or if someone similar is available.
I think the team is built. All the starting eight positions are filled. It might be a good idea to move McCutchen to LF on the road. Leave him in CF at home. Think out of the box. I think Marte controls doubles at PNC Park with his arm and left field is huge. But overall, more balls are hit to CF and Marte is the best fielder.
Harrison doesn't have much value. He was one of the worst offensive 2B last year. He and Frazier can play second based on match ups.
Let Bell play 1B. He is going to be bad in the field anywhere you put him, but more harm can be limited with him at 1B as the Pirates won with the worst fielding 1B maybe in history a couple years ago.
This just means the pitching needs help. For sure one starter, maybe two. Cole, Taillon, and Kuhl are all solid. There is plenty of depth too. The Bullpen could use a Closer too. Keep Watson in his set up role. I would love Melancon back.
No reason to tear down this team. The players are in place. They need to perform with a few guys performing above average.
I think the team is built. All the starting eight positions are filled. It might be a good idea to move McCutchen to LF on the road. Leave him in CF at home. Think out of the box. I think Marte controls doubles at PNC Park with his arm and left field is huge. But overall, more balls are hit to CF and Marte is the best fielder.
Harrison doesn't have much value. He was one of the worst offensive 2B last year. He and Frazier can play second based on match ups.
Let Bell play 1B. He is going to be bad in the field anywhere you put him, but more harm can be limited with him at 1B as the Pirates won with the worst fielding 1B maybe in history a couple years ago.
This just means the pitching needs help. For sure one starter, maybe two. Cole, Taillon, and Kuhl are all solid. There is plenty of depth too. The Bullpen could use a Closer too. Keep Watson in his set up role. I would love Melancon back.
No reason to tear down this team. The players are in place. They need to perform with a few guys performing above average.
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DemDog
2017 Outlook
Gotta say VaPirate you sure do think outside the box. I am not in love with some of the deals you propose but I would not stand in the way of some of them depending on the return and what we as fans expect of the Bucs in the next yr or two. There are positives as well a negatives to doing or not doing each of your deals. Now we need to see what kind of budget NH might have and what they expect in return.
I would have no problem letting Cole and Cutch go depending on the return. Unfortunately I think that trading either now we would be selling low. As for Marte and Polanco no way, too early and contracts are so affordable and the promise if each on matures is far better than what we might get in return.
Keep thinking outside the box, it causes some decent conversation on this board.
I would have no problem letting Cole and Cutch go depending on the return. Unfortunately I think that trading either now we would be selling low. As for Marte and Polanco no way, too early and contracts are so affordable and the promise if each on matures is far better than what we might get in return.
Keep thinking outside the box, it causes some decent conversation on this board.
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rucker59@gmail.com
2017 Outlook
6269616D6869723731467F676E6969286569060 wrote: I would love Wil Myers, but not sure he is available or if someone similar is available.
I think the team is built. All the starting eight positions are filled. It might be a good idea to move McCutchen to LF on the road. Leave him in CF at home. Think out of the box. I think Marte controls doubles at PNC Park with his arm and left field is huge. But overall, more balls are hit to CF and Marte is the best fielder.
Harrison doesn't have much value. He was one of the worst offensive 2B last year. He and Frazier can play second based on match ups.
Let Bell play 1B. He is going to be bad in the field anywhere you put him, but more harm can be limited with him at 1B as the Pirates won with the worst fielding 1B maybe in history a couple years ago.
This just means the pitching needs help. For sure one starter, maybe two. Cole, Taillon, and Kuhl are all solid. There is plenty of depth too. The Bullpen could use a Closer too. Keep Watson in his set up role. I would love Melancon back.
No reason to tear down this team. The players are in place. They need to perform with a few guys performing above average.
Don't want to tear the team down. I just can't see bringing the same team back with another below average rotation. Why would we get different results?
If you can think of another way to build a quality rotation than I'd be all for it. From my prospective, the two biggest disappointments this year were Cole and Glasnow. As of right now all we know for sure is Tallion and Kuhl. Can't do that if we're serious about contending.
I think the team is built. All the starting eight positions are filled. It might be a good idea to move McCutchen to LF on the road. Leave him in CF at home. Think out of the box. I think Marte controls doubles at PNC Park with his arm and left field is huge. But overall, more balls are hit to CF and Marte is the best fielder.
Harrison doesn't have much value. He was one of the worst offensive 2B last year. He and Frazier can play second based on match ups.
Let Bell play 1B. He is going to be bad in the field anywhere you put him, but more harm can be limited with him at 1B as the Pirates won with the worst fielding 1B maybe in history a couple years ago.
This just means the pitching needs help. For sure one starter, maybe two. Cole, Taillon, and Kuhl are all solid. There is plenty of depth too. The Bullpen could use a Closer too. Keep Watson in his set up role. I would love Melancon back.
No reason to tear down this team. The players are in place. They need to perform with a few guys performing above average.
Don't want to tear the team down. I just can't see bringing the same team back with another below average rotation. Why would we get different results?
If you can think of another way to build a quality rotation than I'd be all for it. From my prospective, the two biggest disappointments this year were Cole and Glasnow. As of right now all we know for sure is Tallion and Kuhl. Can't do that if we're serious about contending.
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rucker59@gmail.com
2017 Outlook
6D4C446D464E290 wrote: Gotta say VaPirate you sure do think outside the box. I am not in love with some of the deals you propose but I would not stand in the way of some of them depending on the return and what we as fans expect of the Bucs in the next yr or two. There are positives as well a negatives to doing or not doing each of your deals. Now we need to see what kind of budget NH might have and what they expect in return.
I would have no problem letting Cole and Cutch go depending on the return. Unfortunately I think that trading either now we would be selling low. As for Marte and Polanco no way, too early and contracts are so affordable and the promise if each on matures is far better than what we might get in return.
Keep thinking outside the box, it causes some decent conversation on this board.
Yeah, I know it's way out of the box. But you know how I feel about the 2016 team. It just didn't have a good vibe among a lot of quantifiable holes. Something happened that locker room. It wouldn't break my heart to see a few players turned into new assets.
I definitely don't want to lose Marte. But he and Polanco and Cole (even with injuries, I suspect) are really the only pieces that can be traded for what we really need.
In the end it's just floating stuff out to talk. But I'll say this: I'd rather Neal makes all these deals then to have the offseason we had last year. I bet you agree with that!
I would have no problem letting Cole and Cutch go depending on the return. Unfortunately I think that trading either now we would be selling low. As for Marte and Polanco no way, too early and contracts are so affordable and the promise if each on matures is far better than what we might get in return.
Keep thinking outside the box, it causes some decent conversation on this board.
Yeah, I know it's way out of the box. But you know how I feel about the 2016 team. It just didn't have a good vibe among a lot of quantifiable holes. Something happened that locker room. It wouldn't break my heart to see a few players turned into new assets.
I definitely don't want to lose Marte. But he and Polanco and Cole (even with injuries, I suspect) are really the only pieces that can be traded for what we really need.
In the end it's just floating stuff out to talk. But I'll say this: I'd rather Neal makes all these deals then to have the offseason we had last year. I bet you agree with that!
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
2017 Outlook
Cole was disappointing, but he was hurt ( I hope) and is still the most tenure player in the rotation. He had a great year in 2015, one year removed. No way would I think he is done and can' repeat that season he had in 2015.
Glasnow? What did you expect from the 22 year old? I didn't expect him up at all and feel he was only up due to the injuries.
Kuhl was a surprise to me. I didn't know much about him before last year. Taillon will be an ace soon. I think he is better than Cole.
Like I said, they just need to add to that Rotation. Cole and Taillon should be better next year. Trade for a starter and maybe use a young guy at the bottom of the rotation. They should be better than mediocre.
Glasnow? What did you expect from the 22 year old? I didn't expect him up at all and feel he was only up due to the injuries.
Kuhl was a surprise to me. I didn't know much about him before last year. Taillon will be an ace soon. I think he is better than Cole.
Like I said, they just need to add to that Rotation. Cole and Taillon should be better next year. Trade for a starter and maybe use a young guy at the bottom of the rotation. They should be better than mediocre.
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DemDog
2017 Outlook
3532242C2235727E07202A262E2B6924282A470 wrote: Gotta say VaPirate you sure do think outside the box. I am not in love with some of the deals you propose but I would not stand in the way of some of them depending on the return and what we as fans expect of the Bucs in the next yr or two. There are positives as well a negatives to doing or not doing each of your deals. Now we need to see what kind of budget NH might have and what they expect in return.
I would have no problem letting Cole and Cutch go depending on the return. Unfortunately I think that trading either now we would be selling low. As for Marte and Polanco no way, too early and contracts are so affordable and the promise if each on matures is far better than what we might get in return.
Keep thinking outside the box, it causes some decent conversation on this board.
Yeah, I know it's way out of the box. But you know how I feel about the 2016 team. It just didn't have a good vibe among a lot of quantifiable holes. Something happened that locker room. It wouldn't break my heart to see a few players turned into new assets.
I definitely don't want to lose Marte. But he and Polanco and Cole (even with injuries, I suspect) are really the only pieces that can be traded for what we really need.
In the end it's just floating stuff out to talk. But I'll say this: I'd rather Neal makes all these deals then to have the offseason we had last year. I bet you agree with that!
Yep!!! ;D ;D
I would have no problem letting Cole and Cutch go depending on the return. Unfortunately I think that trading either now we would be selling low. As for Marte and Polanco no way, too early and contracts are so affordable and the promise if each on matures is far better than what we might get in return.
Keep thinking outside the box, it causes some decent conversation on this board.
Yeah, I know it's way out of the box. But you know how I feel about the 2016 team. It just didn't have a good vibe among a lot of quantifiable holes. Something happened that locker room. It wouldn't break my heart to see a few players turned into new assets.
I definitely don't want to lose Marte. But he and Polanco and Cole (even with injuries, I suspect) are really the only pieces that can be traded for what we really need.
In the end it's just floating stuff out to talk. But I'll say this: I'd rather Neal makes all these deals then to have the offseason we had last year. I bet you agree with that!
Yep!!! ;D ;D
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rucker59@gmail.com
2017 Outlook
2B20282421203B7E780F362E272020612C204F0 wrote: Cole was disappointing, but he was hurt ( I hope) and is still the most tenure player in the rotation. He had a great year in 2015, one year removed. No way would I think he is done and can' repeat that season he had in 2015.
Glasnow? What did you expect from the 22 year old? I didn't expect him up at all and feel he was only up due to the injuries.
Kuhl was a surprise to me. I didn't know much about him before last year. Taillon will be an ace soon. I think he is better than Cole.
Like I said, they just need to add to that Rotation. Cole and Taillon should be better next year. Trade for a starter and maybe use a young guy at the bottom of the rotation. They should be better than mediocre.
Cole - honestly, I don't know who he's going to be. None of us do. Surely he'll be better than he was in 2016, but as of right now we don't know. He has a rookie year that was certainly promising but hardly overwhelming. We've got 2015 (great) and 2016 (terrible). Maybe it was injuries this year. Who knows. That's my point.
Glasnow - all I knew about him was what we all read. If you had no expectations for him I'd think you're in a very small minority. The rest of us were wrong I guess, but that raises the Q about last offseason: if the FO was not expecting Glasnow to contribute, and last winter there was no way to predict Tallion's status, doesn't that really call last offseason into even more question?
But you do acknowledge we need at least one more pitcher - what kind of pitcher are you going to be satisfied with and at what cost? All I'm saying is we need the best rotation we can possibly field.
Glasnow? What did you expect from the 22 year old? I didn't expect him up at all and feel he was only up due to the injuries.
Kuhl was a surprise to me. I didn't know much about him before last year. Taillon will be an ace soon. I think he is better than Cole.
Like I said, they just need to add to that Rotation. Cole and Taillon should be better next year. Trade for a starter and maybe use a young guy at the bottom of the rotation. They should be better than mediocre.
Cole - honestly, I don't know who he's going to be. None of us do. Surely he'll be better than he was in 2016, but as of right now we don't know. He has a rookie year that was certainly promising but hardly overwhelming. We've got 2015 (great) and 2016 (terrible). Maybe it was injuries this year. Who knows. That's my point.
Glasnow - all I knew about him was what we all read. If you had no expectations for him I'd think you're in a very small minority. The rest of us were wrong I guess, but that raises the Q about last offseason: if the FO was not expecting Glasnow to contribute, and last winter there was no way to predict Tallion's status, doesn't that really call last offseason into even more question?
But you do acknowledge we need at least one more pitcher - what kind of pitcher are you going to be satisfied with and at what cost? All I'm saying is we need the best rotation we can possibly field.
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rucker59@gmail.com
2017 Outlook
56777F567D75120 wrote: Gotta say VaPirate you sure do think outside the box. I am not in love with some of the deals you propose but I would not stand in the way of some of them depending on the return and what we as fans expect of the Bucs in the next yr or two. There are positives as well a negatives to doing or not doing each of your deals. Now we need to see what kind of budget NH might have and what they expect in return.
I would have no problem letting Cole and Cutch go depending on the return. Unfortunately I think that trading either now we would be selling low. As for Marte and Polanco no way, too early and contracts are so affordable and the promise if each on matures is far better than what we might get in return.
Keep thinking outside the box, it causes some decent conversation on this board.
Yeah, I know it's way out of the box. But you know how I feel about the 2016 team. It just didn't have a good vibe among a lot of quantifiable holes. Something happened that locker room. It wouldn't break my heart to see a few players turned into new assets.
I definitely don't want to lose Marte. But he and Polanco and Cole (even with injuries, I suspect) are really the only pieces that can be traded for what we really need.
In the end it's just floating stuff out to talk. But I'll say this: I'd rather Neal makes all these deals then to have the offseason we had last year. I bet you agree with that!
Yep!!! ;D ;D
Darn right!
I would have no problem letting Cole and Cutch go depending on the return. Unfortunately I think that trading either now we would be selling low. As for Marte and Polanco no way, too early and contracts are so affordable and the promise if each on matures is far better than what we might get in return.
Keep thinking outside the box, it causes some decent conversation on this board.
Yeah, I know it's way out of the box. But you know how I feel about the 2016 team. It just didn't have a good vibe among a lot of quantifiable holes. Something happened that locker room. It wouldn't break my heart to see a few players turned into new assets.
I definitely don't want to lose Marte. But he and Polanco and Cole (even with injuries, I suspect) are really the only pieces that can be traded for what we really need.
In the end it's just floating stuff out to talk. But I'll say this: I'd rather Neal makes all these deals then to have the offseason we had last year. I bet you agree with that!
Yep!!! ;D ;D
Darn right!