This team is a giant mess right now.
I'm not ready to say it is a full-blown disaster, but it's a great big mess.
We currently have 2 real outfielders on the roster. TWO.
We also don't have a true 2B or a true 1B.
We also don't have any power, nor do we have enough starting pitching depth. And oh by the way we have about 4 guys on the roster who have no business being on the roster.
I'll just stop there.
Bottom line ... I can see things falling apart BIG TIME over the next month or so and this team losing 95+ games.
So many issues ...
4/24 game
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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Bobster21
4/24 game
484F59515F480F037A5D575B5356145955573A0 wrote:
Lastly I agree with Speedloader - they failed to build on the 98 win team. Just did. The team we have today is directly tied to any action/nonaction taken after the 2015 season. I don't know why this is so contentious: they rolled the dice and lost. No other way to describe the situation. Maybe their decision was a sound one, but to say their decision has no impact makes no sense.
I agree. And this is a source of discontent with fans. When the Nutting regime pulled the Pirates out of a 20-year losing streak, rebuilt the farm system and vowed to make the team competitive, to increase spending "when the time was right" and to build toward a championship, the fans bought into it. And they could see the results, culminating in a 98-win season that fell short in the WC game. Fans felt like the plan was working and could look forward to further strengthening of the team, especially since (a) the payroll was low and had room to grow and (b) the time seemed right to increase spending enough to add 1 or 2 key pieces to make the team even better.
Instead, the Nutting team pulled back on the reins, lowered payroll and made very few moves of significance in the next 2 off seasons. The plan now seems to be "if all of our questionable IFs turn out perfectly, we might be one of the teams able to compete for a 1-game WC playoff while maintaining one of MLB's smallest payrolls." The FO can't be blamed for losing Kang and Marte. But if it had happened last year, the bench with Joyce and Sean Rodriguez was much better equipped to respond to such losses. But this past off season let those players go and substituted a bench that included no strong defensive players other than Stewart and only 1 (Frazier) who could be expected to hit. And the only reason this team isn't worse than 8-11 is because of the starting pitching which was also a huge concern before the season began. And who knows how that's going to play out? Hopefully, Cole has righted himself and Taillon and Nova are consistently sharp (other than Taillon's last game). Kuhl had 2 good starts and then bombed yesterday. And the excitement of Glasnow is that with each start his bad becomes less bad. So it's more than just losing Kang and Marte. It's that-two years after a 98-win season that had fans thinking this was a team that was on its way-the FO had done very little to even try to maintain, much less improve.
Lastly I agree with Speedloader - they failed to build on the 98 win team. Just did. The team we have today is directly tied to any action/nonaction taken after the 2015 season. I don't know why this is so contentious: they rolled the dice and lost. No other way to describe the situation. Maybe their decision was a sound one, but to say their decision has no impact makes no sense.
I agree. And this is a source of discontent with fans. When the Nutting regime pulled the Pirates out of a 20-year losing streak, rebuilt the farm system and vowed to make the team competitive, to increase spending "when the time was right" and to build toward a championship, the fans bought into it. And they could see the results, culminating in a 98-win season that fell short in the WC game. Fans felt like the plan was working and could look forward to further strengthening of the team, especially since (a) the payroll was low and had room to grow and (b) the time seemed right to increase spending enough to add 1 or 2 key pieces to make the team even better.
Instead, the Nutting team pulled back on the reins, lowered payroll and made very few moves of significance in the next 2 off seasons. The plan now seems to be "if all of our questionable IFs turn out perfectly, we might be one of the teams able to compete for a 1-game WC playoff while maintaining one of MLB's smallest payrolls." The FO can't be blamed for losing Kang and Marte. But if it had happened last year, the bench with Joyce and Sean Rodriguez was much better equipped to respond to such losses. But this past off season let those players go and substituted a bench that included no strong defensive players other than Stewart and only 1 (Frazier) who could be expected to hit. And the only reason this team isn't worse than 8-11 is because of the starting pitching which was also a huge concern before the season began. And who knows how that's going to play out? Hopefully, Cole has righted himself and Taillon and Nova are consistently sharp (other than Taillon's last game). Kuhl had 2 good starts and then bombed yesterday. And the excitement of Glasnow is that with each start his bad becomes less bad. So it's more than just losing Kang and Marte. It's that-two years after a 98-win season that had fans thinking this was a team that was on its way-the FO had done very little to even try to maintain, much less improve.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
4/24 game
We'll see. One year or so ago, I don't remember anyone being happy we still had Sean Rodriguez. The word "scholarship" was thrown around more than once. Now we use him as an example of someone who was a mistake to let go. Matt Joyce was considered an aging retread. Same with him.
Maybe someone this year will still be those things. They better hurry up though.
Maybe someone this year will still be those things. They better hurry up though.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
4/24 game
Fair enough. Point was that last offseason we also got a load of guys that people didn't seem that excited to get but it worked out.
Heh--and hey, a guy who can do half of the OF job is about 50% better than what we have right now, haha
Heh--and hey, a guy who can do half of the OF job is about 50% better than what we have right now, haha
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
4/24 game
Its funny bringing up the bench and not giving Huntington credit. A lot of people wanted Joyce and Rodriguez back. Huntington thought they would be overpaid. Huntington was right. Joyce was bad at the end of last year and is bad right now. Who knows if the same thing would have happened to Rodriguez if he was a Pirate, but he isn't worth his contract this year either.
I am not saying I like the bench. I wanted a power bat. With that said, Jaso and Gosselin are struggling and performing way below their norms.
I was also one who thought the rotation was pretty good entering the season. I am not surprised there. We know Cole can produce. Taillon is a very special talent. Nova is a fine pitcher and Kuhl impressed me last year.
Got to get guys like Polanco, Cervelli, Mercer, and McCutchen going. They are the bats that aren't producing enough. At least, I expected more.
A .500 April will be huge. I just don't get the "season is over" refrain after a bad loss. They can always win the next day. Someone said how the Pirates don't match up with the Yankees after Saturday's bad loss. Even though the Pirates won Friday and beat them again on Sunday. And they didn't have Kang or Marte...
I am not saying I like the bench. I wanted a power bat. With that said, Jaso and Gosselin are struggling and performing way below their norms.
I was also one who thought the rotation was pretty good entering the season. I am not surprised there. We know Cole can produce. Taillon is a very special talent. Nova is a fine pitcher and Kuhl impressed me last year.
Got to get guys like Polanco, Cervelli, Mercer, and McCutchen going. They are the bats that aren't producing enough. At least, I expected more.
A .500 April will be huge. I just don't get the "season is over" refrain after a bad loss. They can always win the next day. Someone said how the Pirates don't match up with the Yankees after Saturday's bad loss. Even though the Pirates won Friday and beat them again on Sunday. And they didn't have Kang or Marte...
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rucker59@gmail.com
4/24 game
I said the Pirates' roster does not compare to the Yankees. and I stand by that. It doesn't compare to the cubs or some other teams. But my real point was that the roster is so screwed up right now that it's almost crazy - and I stand behind that as well. Last night illustrates that.
I haven't said the season is over. I do question whether this team, as constructed, is capable of making the playoffs and actually winning. If they are not really a contender the the obvious question for me is "is there any way to make this team a contender given their very real upside with the rotation".
I have no interest in wasting any years. If this team is not ready to compete, then start planning for a team that is stronger with a better chance to contend.
I haven't said the season is over. I do question whether this team, as constructed, is capable of making the playoffs and actually winning. If they are not really a contender the the obvious question for me is "is there any way to make this team a contender given their very real upside with the rotation".
I have no interest in wasting any years. If this team is not ready to compete, then start planning for a team that is stronger with a better chance to contend.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
4/24 game
696E78707E692E225B7C767A7277357874761B0 wrote:
I have no interest in wasting any years. If this team is not ready to compete, then start planning for a team that is stronger with a better chance to contend.
Every position player is signed or can't go anywhere. Everyone one in the rotation is either signed or can't go anywhere. The only major free agent is Watson.
This is the team going forward. They key spots are in place. Sure, players will be added (bench, bullpen) to make them better.
So, what moves are you making? Who are you getting rid of? I wasn't trying to call anyone out, but how can a team win two out of three but not compare/compete? During the broadcast last night, a Cub was interviewed and said they fear the Pirates and think the Pirates are their biggest competition in the division. They are also 1-3 against the Pirates right now.
I have no interest in wasting any years. If this team is not ready to compete, then start planning for a team that is stronger with a better chance to contend.
Every position player is signed or can't go anywhere. Everyone one in the rotation is either signed or can't go anywhere. The only major free agent is Watson.
This is the team going forward. They key spots are in place. Sure, players will be added (bench, bullpen) to make them better.
So, what moves are you making? Who are you getting rid of? I wasn't trying to call anyone out, but how can a team win two out of three but not compare/compete? During the broadcast last night, a Cub was interviewed and said they fear the Pirates and think the Pirates are their biggest competition in the division. They are also 1-3 against the Pirates right now.
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rucker59@gmail.com
4/24 game
646F676B6E6F743137407961686F6F2E636F000 wrote:
I have no interest in wasting any years. If this team is not ready to compete, then start planning for a team that is stronger with a better chance to contend.
Every position player is signed or can't go anywhere. Everyone one in the rotation is either signed or can't go anywhere. The only major free agent is Watson.
This is the team going forward. They key spots are in place. Sure, players will be added (bench, bullpen) to make them better.
So, what moves are you making? Who are you getting rid of? I wasn't trying to call anyone out, but how can a team win two out of three but not compare/compete? During the broadcast last night, a Cub was interviewed and said they fear the Pirates and think the Pirates are their biggest competition in the division. They are also 1-3 against the Pirates right now.
Maybe we have different goals or see different things. This lineup looks to be a mess to me right now. That's all. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see the Pirates playing .500 ball with this lineup unless they can win a lot of 3-2 games. And they will certainly win some because I believe in the rotation.
Long term contracts don't mean (generally) long term commitment to the player by the same team. If those contracts hold real value that can make the Pirates better by moving them, then they need to move some of them.
I maybe the only person, but I was advocating trading Marte since about the midpoint of last season. Sometimes you can make a team better. If the post season seems to be a lost cause, I'd make every player on the team available not named Tallion. Obviously I'm not advocating trading everyone, but I'd be willing to trade almost anyone that can make the team better.
I have no interest in wasting any years. If this team is not ready to compete, then start planning for a team that is stronger with a better chance to contend.
Every position player is signed or can't go anywhere. Everyone one in the rotation is either signed or can't go anywhere. The only major free agent is Watson.
This is the team going forward. They key spots are in place. Sure, players will be added (bench, bullpen) to make them better.
So, what moves are you making? Who are you getting rid of? I wasn't trying to call anyone out, but how can a team win two out of three but not compare/compete? During the broadcast last night, a Cub was interviewed and said they fear the Pirates and think the Pirates are their biggest competition in the division. They are also 1-3 against the Pirates right now.
Maybe we have different goals or see different things. This lineup looks to be a mess to me right now. That's all. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see the Pirates playing .500 ball with this lineup unless they can win a lot of 3-2 games. And they will certainly win some because I believe in the rotation.
Long term contracts don't mean (generally) long term commitment to the player by the same team. If those contracts hold real value that can make the Pirates better by moving them, then they need to move some of them.
I maybe the only person, but I was advocating trading Marte since about the midpoint of last season. Sometimes you can make a team better. If the post season seems to be a lost cause, I'd make every player on the team available not named Tallion. Obviously I'm not advocating trading everyone, but I'd be willing to trade almost anyone that can make the team better.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
4/24 game
212A222E2B2A317472053C242D2A2A6B262A450 wrote: Its funny bringing up the bench and not giving Huntington credit. A lot of people wanted Joyce and Rodriguez back. Huntington thought they would be overpaid. Huntington was right. Joyce was bad at the end of last year and is bad right now. Who knows if the same thing would have happened to Rodriguez if he was a Pirate, but he isn't worth his contract this year either.
I think that's kind of the point a few posts up. This team (seemingly even moreso than others) is always on a razors' edge between going well and failing. Last year the failure point was the rotation. This year, the position players. A few years before that everything went right. I don't know why we can't get reliable depth but that seems to be the case. Counting on everything to go as expected (or even BETTER than expected) doesn't seem the best course of action.
If we don't get an outfielder I don't see how the pieces of this team fit together to make anything good for this season. It also doesn't make any sense to me to just try to keep everything together until Marte gets back--he's not going to be in the playoffs for us anyhow, so what is the point of that?
I think that's kind of the point a few posts up. This team (seemingly even moreso than others) is always on a razors' edge between going well and failing. Last year the failure point was the rotation. This year, the position players. A few years before that everything went right. I don't know why we can't get reliable depth but that seems to be the case. Counting on everything to go as expected (or even BETTER than expected) doesn't seem the best course of action.
If we don't get an outfielder I don't see how the pieces of this team fit together to make anything good for this season. It also doesn't make any sense to me to just try to keep everything together until Marte gets back--he's not going to be in the playoffs for us anyhow, so what is the point of that?