Is this season over yet???

fjk090852-7 · Post by **fjk090852-7** » Tue May 16, 2017 12:36 pm

You don't trade Rivero. I may sound like a broken record but if they had not lost two starters from our everyday lineup and probably our number two starting pitcher we would be right in the thick of this division. Sure if the Bucs continue to play poorly they will make some trades, but I don't think they will trade away players who they have control over contractually. Some trades will be made with the plan to bring back some players who can help this team compete in upcoming seasons.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Tue May 16, 2017 12:44 pm

2D21207B727B737E79667C4B0 wrote: You don't trade Rivero. I may sound like a broken record but if they had not lost two starters from our everyday lineup and probably our number two starting pitcher we would be right in the thick of this division. Sure if the Bucs continue to play poorly they will make some trades, but I don't think they will trade away players who they have control over contractually. Some trades will be made with the plan to bring back some players who can help this team compete in upcoming seasons.

I agree with you with qualifications. If you can trade even a very good reliever for a FT starting position player of course you do it. Those trades seem to happen less and less often though.

UtahPirate · Post by **UtahPirate** » Tue May 16, 2017 2:23 pm

We have a rotation that will be unable to pull off any 7 or 8 game winning streaks. We would need a couple of those to get back in the hunt. I don't think we can get through all 5 with wins at any point. And given our defense and lack of hitting, another 6 game losing streak would sink us.

So, I think our chances are slim. Start looking forward to deadline trade talk. We trade:

Cole

Cutch (who we better hope gets something figured out before the deadline)

Watson (who won't go as a closer, but makes a nice set-up piece for some team)

Nicasio

JHay

The big piece is Cole. I think he'll go as he can bring the kind of players that help put us back in contention in 2018. You look at what the Yankees and White Sox did at the deadline last year and how it has affected their teams this year. In the meantime, what do you do to develop some of your young core guys this year -- Bell, Polanco and Glasnow.

Bobster21 · Post by **Bobster21** » Tue May 16, 2017 3:06 pm

What concerns me is a potentially endless cycle of improvement followed by rebuilding without ever improving enough. At some point if you want to seriously compete for a championship you have to build on what you've got and not just keep tearing it down to build it up again just to tear it down again. We saw this team revived from 20 years of losing, make the playoff 3 straight years but always fall short, and instead of adding a few more pieces we're talking about trading off many of the core and rebuilding. But for what purpose? To improve enough to get close again and then to sell off the core again and rebuild again rather than adding a few key pieces to put them over the top?

mouse · Post by **mouse** » Tue May 16, 2017 3:27 pm

It seems to me the Pirates are trying to put together the best team they can for 100MM. They might even win a title that way on a fluke, if their young players combine hot seasons. If the situation is bad now, though, wait till next year. Cole's salary likely goes up, as do a number of others, so it's either trade experienced guys off or just release them to keep those salaries in line. When you look at a salary like Bryce Harper's, as well as some of the pitchers, you have to guess another ten to twenty million just to stay even. I'm not sure that will get invested.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Tue May 16, 2017 3:31 pm

I don't buy that. The payroll is low because the young guys are signed and not hitting their higher salaries. It's like people would be happier if Marte, Polanco, Nova, and Kang were making more money. Yet, all these guys are signed at a reasonable price. Some have come off the books as their replacements were added or brought up. Those replacements need to step up. That is where they are failing: Projection of certain players being better than who left.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Tue May 16, 2017 3:50 pm

6A61696560617A3F394E776F666161206D610E0 wrote: I don't buy that. The payroll is low because the young guys are signed and not hitting their higher salaries. It's like people would be happier if Marte, Polanco, Nova, and Kang were making more money. Yet, all these guys are signed at a reasonable price. Some have come off the books as their replacements were added or brought up. Those replacements need to step up. That is where they are failing: Projection of certain players being better than who left.

I think it's a valid concern but given way too much weight. One more pitcher signing or whatever was called for the past few offseasons but is not the biggest issue with the team.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Tue May 16, 2017 4:13 pm

093B37372311323B36333C3B5A0 wrote: I don't buy that. The payroll is low because the young guys are signed and not hitting their higher salaries. It's like people would be happier if Marte, Polanco, Nova, and Kang were making more money. Yet, all these guys are signed at a reasonable price. Some have come off the books as their replacements were added or brought up. Those replacements need to step up. That is where they are failing: Projection of certain players being better than who left.

I think it's a valid concern but given way too much weight. One more pitcher signing or whatever was called for the past few offseasons but is not the biggest issue with the team.

Like Burnett & Rodriguez (deadline deal) in 2012. Like Liriano in 2013. Like Volquez in 2014. Like Burnett & Happ (deadline deal) in 2015. Like Nicasio & Vogelsong in 2016. Like Nova in 2017.

Don't forget about the young guys who were expected to make impacts and did in Cole and Taillon.

One year (one) this didn't work and yet that is all everyone talks about. Going back to 2012, they have brought in that pitcher every single year to help the team make it to the playoffs.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Tue May 16, 2017 4:18 pm

Everyone knew we needed a pitcher going into last offseason too. We had the SP depth of a kiddie pool.

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Tue May 16, 2017 4:33 pm

52606C6C784A69606D686760010 wrote: Everyone knew we needed a pitcher going into last offseason too. We had the SP depth of a kiddie pool.

Last year failed. Cole and Liriano also failed. That was the main issue, not Ryan Vogelsong. Just needed a bridge to get to Taillon. That bridge collapsed and so did everyone else. Every year they have brought in pitchers.