OnlyBucs

Rivero hadn't pitched since last Thursday. I'm sure they just wanted to get him some work.

404B434F4A4B501513645D454C4B4B0A474B240 wrote:

I don't know when Cain signed his deal, but he was a big part of winning two World Series for the Giants. He was not so great in their third WS, but he had 15 starts.



It's like they have to ride these guys out because of what they did for them. This happens a lot. The Phillies are going through this. The Royals might be going through this soon. At least they won it all. You can't deny the Giants runs as they won every other year for five years.


That's a very valid point and is often overlooked. Some people cite teams with high payrolls who are not doing well as a defense for the Pirates not having a higher payroll. But we can't look at it in a vaccuum. Often a team that has a high payroll and is not doing well is a team that recently did well with players who received extended contracts. Toronto went to the ALCS the last 2 years. KC was in the WS in 2014-15. Detroit was in the WS once and ALCS twice since 2011. SF won 3 WS since 2010. Sometimes that's the price of success. The players it takes to succeed are often players you will still be paying as they begin to fade. The Pirates haven't won or even been in a WS since 1979. I suspect that if they were no longer getting their money's worth a couple years after winning a championship, there wouldn't be too many complaints.

Apropos of nothing, we are 13-8 in July. A win in one of the next five months will give us our first winning month if the season.

Tonight will just be Bumgarner's 7th start since returning from injuries. He's been good but not yet the overwhelming pitcher he normally is. If Taillon can keep it close they have a chance.

183538292E3F28686B5A0 wrote:

I don't know when Cain signed his deal, but he was a big part of winning two World Series for the Giants. He was not so great in their third WS, but he had 15 starts.



It's like they have to ride these guys out because of what they did for them. This happens a lot. The Phillies are going through this. The Royals might be going through this soon. At least they won it all. You can't deny the Giants runs as they won every other year for five years.


That's a very valid point and is often overlooked. Some people cite teams with high payrolls who are not doing well as a defense for the Pirates not having a higher payroll. But we can't look at it in a vaccuum. Often a team that has a high payroll and is not doing well is a team that recently did well with players who received extended contracts. Toronto went to the ALCS the last 2 years. KC was in the WS in 2014-15. Detroit was in the WS once and ALCS twice since 2011. SF won 3 WS since 2010. Sometimes that's the price of success. The players it takes to succeed are often players you will still be paying as they begin to fade. The Pirates haven't won or even been in a WS since 1979. I suspect that if they were no longer getting their money's worth a couple years after winning a championship, there wouldn't be too many complaints.


Most of these teams won when the salaries were much lower of their star players / core players. It is easier to add players or fix problems when the big money hasn't kicked in yet. Some teams have paid their players after the WS too. These teams get in trouble for the length of those contracts.



If the Pirates won the WS, I wouldn't care if they gave McCutchen $50 a million a year for the next 5-10 years. Yeah, it would destroy the future, but I'd take that for a WS win.

I actually felt bad watching Matt Cain pitch. He just doesn't have it anymore. He seemed to know it too. Would the Giants cut him? Does he even want to quit? That $21 million a year is hard to turn down. Makes you wonder what happened to him (and Tim Lincecum)?

6B60686461607B3E384F766E676060216C600F0 wrote: I actually felt bad watching Matt Cain pitch.  He just doesn't have it anymore.  He seemed to know it too.  Would the Giants cut him?  Does he even want to quit?  That $21 million a year is hard to turn down.  Makes you wonder what happened to him (and Tim Lincecum)?


Could be that they made their money and don't really care about competing anymore. Not everyone would be that way but a lot could.

517E69687E6270781B0 wrote: I actually felt bad watching Matt Cain pitch.  He just doesn't have it anymore.  He seemed to know it too.  Would the Giants cut him?  Does he even want to quit?  That $21 million a year is hard to turn down.  Makes you wonder what happened to him (and Tim Lincecum)?


Could be that they made their money and don't really care about competing anymore. Not everyone would be that way but a lot could.


it still wouldn't be fun go go out there and be terrible in front of thousands of people.

0F203736203C2E26450 wrote: I actually felt bad watching Matt Cain pitch.  He just doesn't have it anymore.  He seemed to know it too.  Would the Giants cut him?  Does he even want to quit?  That $21 million a year is hard to turn down.  Makes you wonder what happened to him (and Tim Lincecum)?


Could be that they made their money and don't really care about competing anymore. Not everyone would be that way but a lot could.


That could be it. Maybe he doesn't feel embarrassed? He wasn't really throwing hard. He still had a nice curve ball. He has been bad since 2015. If he goes to the bullpen, he still gets paid too.

Cain went from 16-5, 2.79 ERA in 2012 to 8-10, 4.00 ERA in 2013. But WHIP was very good both years and into 2014. But had bone chips removed from his throwing elbow in 2014 when he made only 15 starts when he was 2-7, 4.18. It may be reasonable to assume the injury had contributed to his decline the year before. He began the 2015 season on the DL with a strained right flexor tendon. He made only 11 starts going 2-5 with a 5.79 ERA and an uncharacteristically high WHIP of 1.500. He had a cyst removed from his right arm in 2/16. He then had lower back and right hamstring injuries in 2016 as he made only 17 starts going 5-8 with a 5.64 ERA and 1.511 WHIP. Depending on whether the bone chips affected him in 2013, it's now been 4-5 years since he had a full healthy season and he's unlikely to pitch at 32 like he did at 27 or 28. Seems fair say injuries derailed his career more than his paycheck.