OnlyBucs

020A093E280D2A254B0 wrote: Bob Nutting has robbed me and thousands of others of this enjoyment due to his refusal, for whatever reason, to field a competitive team. 
I think part of the problem is that this regime would argue that they have provided a competitive team this season based on the fact that their 50-52 record hasn't buried them (yet). A losing record in late July should not be viewed as an accomplishment merely because other teams in the division aren't running away with it.

29202839374D0 wrote:



People like to compare the Pirates and Penguins for some reason, so don't forget that it took Mario & Company 10 years to win the Stanley Cup and they drafted the two top players, hall of famers back to back drafts.  Nutting is in his 11th year as owner.  I do think it is a lot harder to win a World Series compared to a Stanley Cup.  Nutting still has time.  If you were willing to give Mario 10 years, why aren't you willing to give Nutting a few extra years knowing the difficulty in comparison of the two leagues?

 


Oooh I've got this one.   please allow me :



1)  Mario is a champion athlete who overcame much adversity (including returning from hodkins lymphoma) and became the 2nd best player ever to play his sport.



1a) Bob Nutting inherited an immense media empire by birthright



2) As owner, Mario has hired general managers who have one singular goal in mind, a championship franchise.    



2a) As chairman of the principle ownership group of the Pirates as early as 2003, Nutting was deeply involved in the team (though not always visibly so) for the past 15 years.  McClatchy was answering to him for years.  Nutting had the final say, it's no secret and the publicly stated reason McClatchy was kept on as CEO  in Jan 2007 officially answering to Nutting was to "clarify" who really had been calling all the shots.  This is all independently verifiable through articles and quotes from both Nutting and McClatchy.  Nutting is a loser.  He has been for almost a generation now



3)  As owner, Mario's GMs operate with one philosophy:  The penguins go for it.  Almost every year they have one sole purpose, win the cup.   They buy when others shy away, they make trades to substantially improve their team EVERY YEAR AND they draft well/ turn out good young talent through their minor leagues.   The have all the bases covered.  Trades, Drafting, Free Agency.  All 3 supplement the teams goal of a cup every year.



3a) Nutting left Dave littlefield on as GM for the entirety of the 2007 season.   He sucked terribly.  NH was hired (who you love, I understand) and set the franchise back years with his initial trade whiffs.   Even today, NH's goal isn't a world series every year, it's to be "competitive".  Just a weasel word.  .500 is competitive in some eyes. 



 Which as you're starting to figure out "competitive" is basically just nonsense when you don't have steady resources to make that happen.   There are no other small market teams in the game that are competitive every year.  almost all of them have won a pennant or a WS, however.  Some multiple times



In summary, Mario is a super-competitive athlete who's entire life has been based on WINNING, on being better than the competition.  Who wasn't handed his success due to being born to the right father  Any athlete like that understands what it means to give it all and fail, but give it all nonetheless. 



In summary, Nutting did nothing to earn his place in life.   He invented nothing, he inherited daddy's media empire and the family interest in the local baseball team.  He took inherited wealth and bought a ski resort. how courageous.    Nutting has no idea what it means to GO FOR IT, because his bloodline guarantees he will never really fail.  When you are handed everything, you'll never be anything but conservative.  There's never a reason to risk, there's only preservation of your status.



 By a large number of accounts, the Nutting enterprises are known for running tight payrolls, but it sure is nice of him to donate a fraction of 1% of this billion dollar wealth to charities that he deems suitable for good PR.  (the robber barons have been doing this since the industrial revolution) 



Nutting is a proven loser. Mario is a proven winner.  Other than that, they have a lot in common.



How did I do?




You nailed it!!!

I have nothing against the Penguins and Mario. Mario is the greatest sport athlete in the city of Pittsburgh. But don't forget he was handed the ownership because he was owed money.



I am a Penguin fan too. I waited as they rebuilt. I hoped they didn't move the team. I couldn't imagine the best hockey player in Penguin history moving the team. It was very close to happening to. I gave him time. I was never down on him or his GM choices. The help of Crosby really turned everything around.



I am willing to give Nutting more time. He is in his 11th year. He has to hire the right people around him as he is not a baseball man. I feel he has done that in Huntington. I actually have no idea what Coonelly does? 



I was too young to remember 1979. I grew up through the miserable 80's. I was a young teenager in the early 90's. So, this is the best era of Pirates baseball I can really appreciate. It was fun to watch the turnaround.  I went from following the minors closely to seeing the players arrive in Pittsburgh. So, Nutting is the owner that brought me the most joy. I want more joy. I want to see a World Series in the worst way.



With that said, this is the first time that I don't know the plan. I could predict the previous years. Right now, I don't know. But I do think if Marte and Kang were here the whole time, the Pirates would be in first place.

IABucFan and DMetz - you guys nailed it.



To attempt to diminish Mario, Ron Burke and the Pens to "protect" Nutting is absurd. Remember the "apologist" debate recently - this is what an apologist does, defend to the extent of being absurd.

616670787661262A53747E727A7F3D707C7E130 wrote: IABucFan and DMetz - you guys nailed it.



To attempt to diminish Mario, Ron Burke and the Pens to "protect" Nutting is absurd.  Remember the "apologist" debate recently - this is what an apologist does, defend to the extent of being absurd.


See, that's not what I did at all. Why it's annoying to say anything. I told you why. You don't have to agree but that is why I feel the way I do. It's not defending anyone or apologizing. Ugh!

4A41494540415A1F196E574F464141004D412E0 wrote: I have nothing against the Penguins and Mario. Mario is the greatest sport athlete in the city of Pittsburgh. But don't forget he was handed the ownership because he was owed money.



I am a Penguin fan too. I waited as they rebuilt. I hoped they didn't move the team. I couldn't imagine the best hockey player in Penguin history moving the team. It was very close to happening to. I gave him time. I was never down on him or his GM choices. The help of Crosby really turned everything around.



I am willing to give Nutting more time. He is in his 11th year. He has to hire the right people around him as he is not a baseball man. I feel he has done that in Huntington. I actually have no idea what Coonelly does? 



I was too young to remember 1979. I grew up through the miserable 80's. I was a young teenager in the early 90's. So, this is the best era of Pirates baseball I can really appreciate. It was fun to watch the turnaround.  I went from following the minors closely to seeing the players arrive in Pittsburgh. So, Nutting is the owner that brought me the most joy. I want more joy. I want to see a World Series in the worst way.



With that said, this is the first time that I don't know the plan. I could predict the previous years. Right now, I don't know. But I do think if Marte and Kang were here the whole time, the Pirates would be in first place.




Not trying to be offensive, but i'm not buying what you're selling.   Based on your story, either you became a baseball fan later than most (as an adult, essentially), or you're blowing smoke.   The Bonds, Bonilla, Vanslyke, Drebek era was unquestionably superior than recent pirates efforts



We haven't won a division since that era.   We haven't finished a regular season as a playoff team by the pre-wildcard standards of baseball since that era.   



Nutting is a loser.  Why do you continue to try to compare bob nutting to Mario Lemuiex and the Pirates (the biggest loser franchise in modern sports history) to the Pens (one of the best)?



I told you before, Nutting isn't in his 11th year of controlling the purse strings and being the head honcho, he's in his 15th year. McClatchy answered to Nutting since 2003. He was board chairman

As an adult I understand the game and business a lot more.



I am not trying to compare Mario and Nutting but people do all the time for some reason. Two different businesses. It does surprise me how people don't see the comparison.



And No. Nutting became controlling owner on January 12, 2007.

6A61696560617A3F394E776F666161206D610E0 wrote: As an adult I understand the game and business a lot more.



I am not trying to compare Mario and Nutting but people do all the time for some reason. Two different businesses. It does surprise me how people don't see the comparison.



And No. Nutting became controlling owner on January 12, 2007.


I'm sorry Dog, Nutting was the chairman of the board of directors since 2003.   This article may clarify it for you.   He had control of the purse and McClatchy was answering to him already.  CLARIFYING that already existent structure was the stated reason he became principle owner in 2007.



http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pira ... 0701130123

Bob Nutting sucks and shouldn't even be able to breathe the same oxygen as a guy like Mario Lemieux. And to sit there and say the teams the last few years have had more success then the teams of the 90 when two of those teams in 91 and 92 were both one win away from going to the World Series is utterly absurd. The bottom line is this team still has no World Series appearances or playoff series wins since 1979. Only 2 other teams in baseball have not been up the World Series at least once since then.

426574707568576374757568110 wrote: Bob Nutting sucks and shouldn't even be able to breathe the same oxygen as a guy like Mario Lemieux. And to sit there and say the teams the last few years have had more success then the teams of the 90 when two of those teams in 91 and 92 were both one win away from going to the World Series is utterly absurd. The bottom line is this team still has no World Series appearances or playoff series wins since 1979. Only 2 other teams in baseball have not been up the World Series at least once since then.


I didn't say the teams of the 90's were worse. Not once. I also don't think that. What I said was that I appreciate the most recent playoff run more because I am older, an adult. Ugh!