596268634F0B0 wrote: Osuna with a full year of AB`s is a 260/15/70 guy. 320 obp. We could use that at 3rd , since we do not have anything else. Think Steve Buchele numbers, and back then we actually traded to get him as a bat.
We need hitters real ones ..Cutch having a great season and we are in 4th place .He is not a difference maker .He gets his stats thats all ...Players dont rally around him . They don`t fear his wrath.He is a good guy .His stock is high get a solid return for him...
That's like Freese's numbers this year. I would like to see Osuna play some third soon.
If you were NH
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
If you were NH
I want Kang back. Now, that's assuming he's the same guy we had for two years. I have serious doubts that after a year away from the game he can even come back and play at the same level, even if he could get a visa. But, he still makes the lineup much, much better if he's back.
Looking at next year, I am actually quite a bit more positive than I even was at the start of this year. I think the rotation should be pretty solid. I could see a Cole trade though. He'd be in demand. I think Taillon, Williams, and Kuhl will all be better, plus hopefully Glasnow, Kingham, Cumpton, Brault, or Holmes will step in and round out the rotation.
Right now, I don't trade Polanco or Marte. I think it's selling low on both. I think the potential for a rebound is greater than anything either can bring back.
The thing that bugs me is that there are a lot of questions. There's always a lot of questions, but I feel like more this year. Among them...
1. What to do with McCutchen? Trade him and go with Meadows? Keep him one more year and let him walk? Extend him?
2. What to do with Marte and Polanco? Both have disappointed, but I think a trade would be selling low.
3. What to do with Cole? See #2 above.
4. How about Cervelli? Diaz is obviously ready. Will anyone want Cervelli?
5. What to do with Mercer? Newman has been very good in about a month of games at AAA.
The crazy thing is, I actually don't think this team is all that far off. They have dealt with the Marte and Kang situations. They dealt with a teammate being diagnosed with cancer and missing a month. They dealt with their best player being below average for a month and a half.
Why are they not in first place? Lots of blown leads, and having an utter inability to beat teams whom they are better than (e.g. San Francisco, San Diego, and Cincinnati). They have a winning record against Milwaukee, Chicago, Washington, and the Yankees. It boggles my mind why they can't beat the Reds or Padres.
Regardless, I actually don't think they are that far off. Pitching should be much better next year. If they'd only figure out how to spend money wisely, and not waste it on guys whose production could easily be replicated by minor leaguers, they could actually go and get a real bonafide MLB player in his prime to fill in a hole or two.
Looking at next year, I am actually quite a bit more positive than I even was at the start of this year. I think the rotation should be pretty solid. I could see a Cole trade though. He'd be in demand. I think Taillon, Williams, and Kuhl will all be better, plus hopefully Glasnow, Kingham, Cumpton, Brault, or Holmes will step in and round out the rotation.
Right now, I don't trade Polanco or Marte. I think it's selling low on both. I think the potential for a rebound is greater than anything either can bring back.
The thing that bugs me is that there are a lot of questions. There's always a lot of questions, but I feel like more this year. Among them...
1. What to do with McCutchen? Trade him and go with Meadows? Keep him one more year and let him walk? Extend him?
2. What to do with Marte and Polanco? Both have disappointed, but I think a trade would be selling low.
3. What to do with Cole? See #2 above.
4. How about Cervelli? Diaz is obviously ready. Will anyone want Cervelli?
5. What to do with Mercer? Newman has been very good in about a month of games at AAA.
The crazy thing is, I actually don't think this team is all that far off. They have dealt with the Marte and Kang situations. They dealt with a teammate being diagnosed with cancer and missing a month. They dealt with their best player being below average for a month and a half.
Why are they not in first place? Lots of blown leads, and having an utter inability to beat teams whom they are better than (e.g. San Francisco, San Diego, and Cincinnati). They have a winning record against Milwaukee, Chicago, Washington, and the Yankees. It boggles my mind why they can't beat the Reds or Padres.
Regardless, I actually don't think they are that far off. Pitching should be much better next year. If they'd only figure out how to spend money wisely, and not waste it on guys whose production could easily be replicated by minor leaguers, they could actually go and get a real bonafide MLB player in his prime to fill in a hole or two.
If you were NH
Following up on this, here are the 2018 salary commitments for the Pirates.
http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/pittsburgh-p ... roll/2018/
What bugs me is how much is being spent on guys whose production could easily, and I mean EASILY be replicated by MiLB guys or utility guys currently in Pittsburgh
Cervelli-$10.5 million (Diaz)
Rodriguez-$5.75 million (Moroff)
Hudson-$5.5 million (Neverauskas)
Freese-$4.25 million (Frazier)
Stewart-$1.5 million (Stallings)
LeBlanc-$1.25 million (Brault)
That's $28.75 million spent on six guys, whose production could probably be more or less replicated for around $3 million, which is the MLB minimum for those five players. Imagine what you could do with $25.75 million!
The only players making more than that this year are Albert Pujols, Felix Hernandez, Justin Verlander, Miguel Cabrera, David Price, and Clayton Kershaw. That would get you everybody else in MLB. I realize it's not that simple. But, here's my proposed roster next year.
Marte
McCutchen
Polanco
Harrison
Newman
Moustakas
Bell
Diaz
Moroff
Stallings
Luplow (an actual fourth outfielder!)
Osuna
Frazier
Cole
Taillon
Nova
Williams
Kuhl
Brault
Glasnow
Hutchison
Neverauskas
Kontos
Nicasio
Rivero
Obviously, Brault, Glasnow, Hutchison, Williams, and Kuhl are interchangeable. Kingham and Holmes can also get thrown into that mix.
This is doable, if we weren't on the hook for all the dead weight in salary I outlined above. Would I trade Cervelli, Rodriguez, Freese etc. for Diaz, Moroff, Frazier etc. AND Moustakas? Yes. Absolutely. Do I think the team I outlined above is a contender. Again, yes. Absolutely.
http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/pittsburgh-p ... roll/2018/
What bugs me is how much is being spent on guys whose production could easily, and I mean EASILY be replicated by MiLB guys or utility guys currently in Pittsburgh
Cervelli-$10.5 million (Diaz)
Rodriguez-$5.75 million (Moroff)
Hudson-$5.5 million (Neverauskas)
Freese-$4.25 million (Frazier)
Stewart-$1.5 million (Stallings)
LeBlanc-$1.25 million (Brault)
That's $28.75 million spent on six guys, whose production could probably be more or less replicated for around $3 million, which is the MLB minimum for those five players. Imagine what you could do with $25.75 million!
The only players making more than that this year are Albert Pujols, Felix Hernandez, Justin Verlander, Miguel Cabrera, David Price, and Clayton Kershaw. That would get you everybody else in MLB. I realize it's not that simple. But, here's my proposed roster next year.
Marte
McCutchen
Polanco
Harrison
Newman
Moustakas
Bell
Diaz
Moroff
Stallings
Luplow (an actual fourth outfielder!)
Osuna
Frazier
Cole
Taillon
Nova
Williams
Kuhl
Brault
Glasnow
Hutchison
Neverauskas
Kontos
Nicasio
Rivero
Obviously, Brault, Glasnow, Hutchison, Williams, and Kuhl are interchangeable. Kingham and Holmes can also get thrown into that mix.
This is doable, if we weren't on the hook for all the dead weight in salary I outlined above. Would I trade Cervelli, Rodriguez, Freese etc. for Diaz, Moroff, Frazier etc. AND Moustakas? Yes. Absolutely. Do I think the team I outlined above is a contender. Again, yes. Absolutely.
If you were NH
1). There is absolutely zero chance we sign Moose or Frasier in FA. ZERO CHANCE. SRod was signed for Kang insurance, NH said so himself.
2) there is no reason to get rid of SRod with as many positions he plays, his HR/Ab ratio and walk rates this year and last. His annual salary is a bargain.
3) the rotation isn't anywhere near as good as it's being made out to be.
2) there is no reason to get rid of SRod with as many positions he plays, his HR/Ab ratio and walk rates this year and last. His annual salary is a bargain.
3) the rotation isn't anywhere near as good as it's being made out to be.
If you were NH
707971606E140 wrote: 1). There is absolutely zero chance we sign Moose or Frasier in FA. ZERO CHANCE. SRod was signed for Kang insurance, NH said so himself.
2) there is no reason to get rid of SRod with as many positions he plays, his HR/Ab ratio and walk rates this year and last. His annual salary is a bargain.
3) the rotation isn't anywhere near as good as it's being made out to be.
1. I know that. I outlined how I think the Pirates could do it, if they didn't throw so much money away. Signing a bench guy to be a starter is not a good way to put a competitive baseball team on the field.
2. Ehh...positional flexibility doesn't really impress me. Frazier, Harrison, Moroff, Osuna can replicate his production, and his defensive flexibility, for a fraction of the cost.
3. Fair enough...I think there is a lot of potential there. Don't have the time to look now, but I wonder how many innings Williams, Kuhl, and Taillon threw last year, and how many they've thrown this year. Cole has been a disappointment, but the pedigree is there. I don't think it's a stretch to think that Brault, Glasnow, and Kingham could throw the ball well in MLB.
I just think that the guys I named above are a hearken back to the days of Craig and Jack Wilson, Jeff Suppan, Jeff D'Amico, Kenny Lofton, Reggie Sanders, Matt Stairs, etc. Proven mediocrity. Can Newman replicate what Mercer has done this year? Probably. Can Diaz replicate what Cervelli has done? I'd say almost certainly. Ditto Moroff and Rodriguez, Santana/Neverauskas for Hudson/Benoit. I could go on and on.
The Pirates are already behind the 8-ball when it comes to the economics of baseball. Don't compound the problem by throwing $5 million at a problem you can solve for $600,000. It seem like the Drive for 75 all over again.
You know...as I type this out, I'm realizing that I've been wrong. I'm starting to think that maybe NH isn't the great GM that I thought he was.
2) there is no reason to get rid of SRod with as many positions he plays, his HR/Ab ratio and walk rates this year and last. His annual salary is a bargain.
3) the rotation isn't anywhere near as good as it's being made out to be.
1. I know that. I outlined how I think the Pirates could do it, if they didn't throw so much money away. Signing a bench guy to be a starter is not a good way to put a competitive baseball team on the field.
2. Ehh...positional flexibility doesn't really impress me. Frazier, Harrison, Moroff, Osuna can replicate his production, and his defensive flexibility, for a fraction of the cost.
3. Fair enough...I think there is a lot of potential there. Don't have the time to look now, but I wonder how many innings Williams, Kuhl, and Taillon threw last year, and how many they've thrown this year. Cole has been a disappointment, but the pedigree is there. I don't think it's a stretch to think that Brault, Glasnow, and Kingham could throw the ball well in MLB.
I just think that the guys I named above are a hearken back to the days of Craig and Jack Wilson, Jeff Suppan, Jeff D'Amico, Kenny Lofton, Reggie Sanders, Matt Stairs, etc. Proven mediocrity. Can Newman replicate what Mercer has done this year? Probably. Can Diaz replicate what Cervelli has done? I'd say almost certainly. Ditto Moroff and Rodriguez, Santana/Neverauskas for Hudson/Benoit. I could go on and on.
The Pirates are already behind the 8-ball when it comes to the economics of baseball. Don't compound the problem by throwing $5 million at a problem you can solve for $600,000. It seem like the Drive for 75 all over again.
You know...as I type this out, I'm realizing that I've been wrong. I'm starting to think that maybe NH isn't the great GM that I thought he was.
If you were NH
2) a fraction of what cost? 5.5 million? The guys you mention are already on the team next year. jHay is a starter, Frazier and Osuna with bench roles. So that leaves moroff.
SRod has produced at Pedro alverez hr/ab levels with a good walk rates to go with it for 2 seasons now as a part time player. I would love a big starting bat at third too, but selling SRod because of a 5.5 million salary (a steal Imo) so Max Moroff can take his roster spot would make the team worse
They should keep SRod and buy a starting 3bman, which will allow him to continue in the super utility role as a .750+ OPS player with plus defense at multiple positions (they won't)
At the end of the day, he's hit 23 homers and walked 43 times in his last 420 plate appearances. That's 5.5 million dollars worth keeping on the books
SRod has produced at Pedro alverez hr/ab levels with a good walk rates to go with it for 2 seasons now as a part time player. I would love a big starting bat at third too, but selling SRod because of a 5.5 million salary (a steal Imo) so Max Moroff can take his roster spot would make the team worse
They should keep SRod and buy a starting 3bman, which will allow him to continue in the super utility role as a .750+ OPS player with plus defense at multiple positions (they won't)
At the end of the day, he's hit 23 homers and walked 43 times in his last 420 plate appearances. That's 5.5 million dollars worth keeping on the books
If you were NH
78717968661C0 wrote: 2) a fraction of what cost? 5.5 million? The guys you mention are already on the team next year. jHay is a starter, Frazier and Osuna with bench roles. So that leaves moroff.
SRod has produced at Pedro alverez hr/ab levels with a good walk rates to go with it for 2 seasons now as a part time player. I would love a big starting bat at third too, but selling SRod because of a 5.5 million salary (a steal Imo) so Max Moroff can take his roster spot would make the team worse
They should keep SRod and buy a starting 3bman, which will allow him to continue in the super utility role as a .750+ OPS player with plus defense at multiple positions (they won't)
At the end of the day, he's hit 23 homers and walked 43 times in his last 420 plate appearances. That's 5.5 million dollars worth keeping on the books
Just a difference of opinion, I suppose. I see 2016 as an outlier in his career. I don't like paying guys off a career year. I had no qualms with them letting him walk. I remember fondly 2015 when he was that year's Jaso. His nickname on this board was S-Dud.
$5.5 million is too much for a bench piece, especially for this team. The fact that they are actually trying to sell Sean Rodriguez as a viable MLB starter makes it all the worse. In not matchin the Braves offer, they were essentially saying the same thing. "We won't pay $5.5 million for a guy to pinch hit and start twice a week." Now, with Kang out, instead of going and getting someone capable of playing everyday next year, they are suddenly willing to eat his salary because they no longer see him as a bench piece, but as a starter, even if it's as a starter at a different position each night. They don't see him as a starter because of talent, mind you, but rather because their real starter is still stuck in Korea.
I can give them a pass on Kang this year, and having to use Freese out of necessity. I can't give the same pass next year. Rodriguez is trying to fix a broken bone with a splint made out of two sticks. Fine if you are stuck in the woods and just trying to survive. That doesn't cut it when you are in the hospital though. They've had ample time to address the third base need, IMO, and Rodriguez doesn't cut it.
To your point about Moroff, yes, I think he could post a similar WAR next year. Regardless, I don't think it would be so drastic as to justify a $5 million difference in salary. That $5 million could be better utilized elsewhere.
SRod has produced at Pedro alverez hr/ab levels with a good walk rates to go with it for 2 seasons now as a part time player. I would love a big starting bat at third too, but selling SRod because of a 5.5 million salary (a steal Imo) so Max Moroff can take his roster spot would make the team worse
They should keep SRod and buy a starting 3bman, which will allow him to continue in the super utility role as a .750+ OPS player with plus defense at multiple positions (they won't)
At the end of the day, he's hit 23 homers and walked 43 times in his last 420 plate appearances. That's 5.5 million dollars worth keeping on the books
Just a difference of opinion, I suppose. I see 2016 as an outlier in his career. I don't like paying guys off a career year. I had no qualms with them letting him walk. I remember fondly 2015 when he was that year's Jaso. His nickname on this board was S-Dud.
$5.5 million is too much for a bench piece, especially for this team. The fact that they are actually trying to sell Sean Rodriguez as a viable MLB starter makes it all the worse. In not matchin the Braves offer, they were essentially saying the same thing. "We won't pay $5.5 million for a guy to pinch hit and start twice a week." Now, with Kang out, instead of going and getting someone capable of playing everyday next year, they are suddenly willing to eat his salary because they no longer see him as a bench piece, but as a starter, even if it's as a starter at a different position each night. They don't see him as a starter because of talent, mind you, but rather because their real starter is still stuck in Korea.
I can give them a pass on Kang this year, and having to use Freese out of necessity. I can't give the same pass next year. Rodriguez is trying to fix a broken bone with a splint made out of two sticks. Fine if you are stuck in the woods and just trying to survive. That doesn't cut it when you are in the hospital though. They've had ample time to address the third base need, IMO, and Rodriguez doesn't cut it.
To your point about Moroff, yes, I think he could post a similar WAR next year. Regardless, I don't think it would be so drastic as to justify a $5 million difference in salary. That $5 million could be better utilized elsewhere.
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UtahPirate
- Posts: 582
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:36 pm
If you were NH
62474444517A474F4D5A280 wrote: What would be your plan to get the Bucs back into the postseason next year. Here is my plan:
5)Bullpen. Obviously Benoit, LeBlanc, and Hudson do not return. I bring up Glasnow, Brault for long relief. Resign Kontos and Nicasio. Round out the pen with Schugel, Neveraskas, and of course Rivero as the closer.
A couple of recent moves have been made with 2018 in mind. Brault has been moved to the bullpen at Indy and Cumpton has been moved up from AA to Indy's bullpen. Cumpton is a bit of a forgotten man because of his TJ surgery and other health issues. But he has some solid MLB experience for us and it looks like his future is in the pen.
Hudson will be back as he has a another year on his contract and we won't do anything until we find out if he has rediscovered himself next year. I think Kontos has a good chance of signing but Nicasio doesn't -- someone will pay him more than we would. With these moves I think a potential bullpen for 2018 is:
Rivero
Kontos
Neveraskas
Hudson
Schugel
Cumpton
Brault
Just a note. Montana DuRapau moved up to AAA in July. I don't know what the kid does, how he does it -- because he doesn't rate out highly, he's not tall and powerful, he doesn't have an overwhelming pitch -- but whatever it is, he does it well. He was Altoona's closer with a 1.49 ERA in 36 innings. He has responded at Indy with 17 K's and 3 BB's in 11.1 innings. As I recall he was a 33rd rounder, but whatever it was, it was very late. With my strong scouting abilities he became one of my must watch prospects because of that great name with all the vowels (Scooter Hightower is my current fav because at 6'6", Scooter is pretty funny -- and maybe there some magic to a name because he's turning himself into a interesting pitcher). But I wouldn't put DuRapau out of the 2018 mix because once and awhile one of these non-prospect kids have "it" and I think he's one kid who does.
5)Bullpen. Obviously Benoit, LeBlanc, and Hudson do not return. I bring up Glasnow, Brault for long relief. Resign Kontos and Nicasio. Round out the pen with Schugel, Neveraskas, and of course Rivero as the closer.
A couple of recent moves have been made with 2018 in mind. Brault has been moved to the bullpen at Indy and Cumpton has been moved up from AA to Indy's bullpen. Cumpton is a bit of a forgotten man because of his TJ surgery and other health issues. But he has some solid MLB experience for us and it looks like his future is in the pen.
Hudson will be back as he has a another year on his contract and we won't do anything until we find out if he has rediscovered himself next year. I think Kontos has a good chance of signing but Nicasio doesn't -- someone will pay him more than we would. With these moves I think a potential bullpen for 2018 is:
Rivero
Kontos
Neveraskas
Hudson
Schugel
Cumpton
Brault
Just a note. Montana DuRapau moved up to AAA in July. I don't know what the kid does, how he does it -- because he doesn't rate out highly, he's not tall and powerful, he doesn't have an overwhelming pitch -- but whatever it is, he does it well. He was Altoona's closer with a 1.49 ERA in 36 innings. He has responded at Indy with 17 K's and 3 BB's in 11.1 innings. As I recall he was a 33rd rounder, but whatever it was, it was very late. With my strong scouting abilities he became one of my must watch prospects because of that great name with all the vowels (Scooter Hightower is my current fav because at 6'6", Scooter is pretty funny -- and maybe there some magic to a name because he's turning himself into a interesting pitcher). But I wouldn't put DuRapau out of the 2018 mix because once and awhile one of these non-prospect kids have "it" and I think he's one kid who does.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
If you were NH
60686B5C4A6F4847290 wrote:
$5.5 million is too much for a bench piece, especially for this team. The fact that they are actually trying to sell Sean Rodriguez as a viable MLB starter makes it all the worse. In not matchin the Braves offer, they were essentially saying the same thing. "We won't pay $5.5 million for a guy to pinch hit and start twice a week." Now, with Kang out, instead of going and getting someone capable of playing everyday next year, they are suddenly willing to eat his salary because they no longer see him as a bench piece, but as a starter, even if it's as a starter at a different position each night. They don't see him as a starter because of talent, mind you, but rather because their real starter is still stuck in Korea.
I can give them a pass on Kang this year, and having to use Freese out of necessity. I can't give the same pass next year. Rodriguez is trying to fix a broken bone with a splint made out of two sticks. Fine if you are stuck in the woods and just trying to survive. That doesn't cut it when you are in the hospital though. They've had ample time to address the third base need, IMO, and Rodriguez doesn't cut it.
To your point about Moroff, yes, I think he could post a similar WAR next year. Regardless, I don't think it would be so drastic as to justify a $5 million difference in salary. That $5 million could be better utilized elsewhere.
I understand your point, but we did just witness back to back seasons where the bench was very good (2016) and pretty bad (2017).
I agree with you to a point. I never liked investing into the bench when there were no permanent starters. That isn't the case anymore. The line up is pretty much set. I can see a 3B upgrade next year, but every other position is set. Kang might be back too (might).
Also, the starters are under good contracts. They are mostly young or in the first few years of their deals. I have no problem with money being spent on the bench at this point. Of course, they need to perform too. Any team will struggle if the bench is needed too much.
$5.5 million is too much for a bench piece, especially for this team. The fact that they are actually trying to sell Sean Rodriguez as a viable MLB starter makes it all the worse. In not matchin the Braves offer, they were essentially saying the same thing. "We won't pay $5.5 million for a guy to pinch hit and start twice a week." Now, with Kang out, instead of going and getting someone capable of playing everyday next year, they are suddenly willing to eat his salary because they no longer see him as a bench piece, but as a starter, even if it's as a starter at a different position each night. They don't see him as a starter because of talent, mind you, but rather because their real starter is still stuck in Korea.
I can give them a pass on Kang this year, and having to use Freese out of necessity. I can't give the same pass next year. Rodriguez is trying to fix a broken bone with a splint made out of two sticks. Fine if you are stuck in the woods and just trying to survive. That doesn't cut it when you are in the hospital though. They've had ample time to address the third base need, IMO, and Rodriguez doesn't cut it.
To your point about Moroff, yes, I think he could post a similar WAR next year. Regardless, I don't think it would be so drastic as to justify a $5 million difference in salary. That $5 million could be better utilized elsewhere.
I understand your point, but we did just witness back to back seasons where the bench was very good (2016) and pretty bad (2017).
I agree with you to a point. I never liked investing into the bench when there were no permanent starters. That isn't the case anymore. The line up is pretty much set. I can see a 3B upgrade next year, but every other position is set. Kang might be back too (might).
Also, the starters are under good contracts. They are mostly young or in the first few years of their deals. I have no problem with money being spent on the bench at this point. Of course, they need to perform too. Any team will struggle if the bench is needed too much.
If you were NH
I was one of the many critics of S-Rod in the past. He exhibited little plate discipline, little power and he couldn't handle SS. He was a middle infielder being used as a defensive substitute at 1st base.
What I now like about him is that it appears that he can handle SS as well as all other IF positions, and even play a bit in the OF, and he can deliver a HR while doing so. I wouldn't call him a steal at $5.5 mil, but I would keep him on the team next year.
What I now like about him is that it appears that he can handle SS as well as all other IF positions, and even play a bit in the OF, and he can deliver a HR while doing so. I wouldn't call him a steal at $5.5 mil, but I would keep him on the team next year.