OnlyBucs

764448485C6E4D44494C4344250 wrote: I think there's something else to this.  If all of everyone's deepest fantasies are true and it is all about money, there are lots of people other than Juan Nicasio that could have been waived. 


Those people may have already been through waivers, without any takers.

17322134282328292C24400 wrote: The market for middle relief pitchers never materialized and became nonexistent after the standard trade deadline. People seem to be forgetting that we just got George Kontos for free. Kontos has had a better career and has control remaining but the Giants got nothing for him.
Not the same situation.



SF got nothing for Kontos but he was not doing well for them. He was 0-5 in relief. At the time he was waived, he had been scored upon in 8 of his previous 12 Giants' games. During that time his ERA had ballooned from 2.68 to 3.83 with 15 hits and 10 ER (12 total runs) in 11.1 innings in that stretch. SF needed a roster spot for Chris Stratton, Kontos was the obvious choice to go and apparently no team (including the Pirates) was willing to give up anything for the struggling 32 year old.

Nicasio is having a good season as their 2nd best reliever, used as their 8th inning setup guy. He's 2 years younger than Kontos. They don't need to open a roster spot. They don't need to move the pittance of salary they now owe him and if they did, he has a lot more value than Kontos. If there's no trade market for him, he could at least be of value the remaining month of the season to the Pirates. Kontos had no value to SF when he was waived.

0C293A2F33383332373F5B0 wrote: The market for middle relief pitchers never materialized and became nonexistent after the standard trade deadline. People seem to be forgetting that we just got George Kontos for free. Kontos has had a better career and has control remaining but the Giants got nothing for him.


I think the objection is that there's still another month in the season, and even if they're out of the race they should still have a plausible bullpen to finish the season. Nicasio at his current rate is a piece of a plausible bullpen.

143934252233246467560 wrote: The market for middle relief pitchers never materialized and became nonexistent after the standard trade deadline. People seem to be forgetting that we just got George Kontos for free. Kontos has had a better career and has control remaining but the Giants got nothing for him.
Not the same situation.



SF got nothing for Kontos but he was not doing well for them. He was 0-5 in relief. At the time he was waived, he had been scored upon in 8 of his previous 12 Giants' games. During that time his ERA had ballooned from 2.68 to 3.83 with 15 hits and 10 ER (12 total runs) in 11.1 innings in that stretch. SF needed a roster spot for Chris Stratton, Kontos was the obvious choice to go and apparently no team (including the Pirates) was willing to give up anything for the struggling 32 year old.   

Nicasio is having a good season as their 2nd best reliever, used as their 8th inning setup guy. He's 2 years younger than Kontos. They don't need to open a roster spot. They don't need to move the pittance of salary they now owe him and if they did, he has a lot more value than Kontos. If there's no trade market for him, he could at least be of value the remaining month of the season to the Pirates. Kontos had no value to SF when he was waived. 


Kontos may be a bit older, but he is under contract for next year.  Nicasio isn't.



I don't get the angst about this at all.  This team isn't making the playoffs.  When the roster expands, (I hope) a bunch of innings are going to go to younger pitchers who are currently in AAA.  There is no need for Nicasio around



Clearly there was no market for Nicasio.  There is no way they would have given him up for nothing if there was someone willing to trade.  It may be fun to say how stupid the FO is, but that would miss that opportunity.  They just wouldn't.

576569697D4F6C65686D6265040 wrote: I think there's something else to this.  If all of everyone's deepest fantasies are true and it is all about money, there are lots of people other than Juan Nicasio that could have been waived. 


No, that's not accurate. Any player that ends up getting released, still has to be paid by The Pirates, unless another team picks them up.



Nicasio is having a nice season and should immediately be grabbed. Then Nutting don't have to pay his remaining salary. If they were to do the same with say Jaso or Hudson and no team picks them up, Nutting still has to pay them.

I know its August 30, but I am surprised that there is no market for Nicassio. Nicassio is not a lock when he enters a game, but he has thrown a number of good innings for the Pirates this year. A late inning reliever (7th inning on) who can throw 10 - 15 good innings during a September push for a pennant likely has some, albeit limited return value in a trade.



I am hopeful that the Pirates can acquire someone or something for him (perhaps some international bonus pool funds) even though he is now of irrevocable waivers. If they can't, I am certain that someone will pick him up and that the team that does likely has a greater shot at the play-offs than the virtually non-existent chances for the Pirates.



With respect to LeBlanc, I'm not sure anyone will even claim him, unless they want someone who can absorb a few innings of pitching down the stretch to help save their better relievers.



Too bad Benoit is hurt. Pirates could also try to put him on waivers.



Kontos could have some value to the Pirates next year as he still has a year or so of control and because he likely would be a cheaper option than Nicassio, who is a free agent.



So ---- now that Nicassio likely is gone, that LeBlanc could be gone, that Benoit and Kontos are out, Hurdle will have little choice but to use young relievers in late inning situations. Time to see what the team may have for 2018.



Secondly, Clint, time to give even more ab's to Luplow, Osuna, Moroff and Diaz. Sit Freese, Stewart and Jaso more regularly. Although I really favor giving more ab's to the younger players, I am okay with giving S-Rod more ab's to see if he can work his way back from injury.



2017 - What a disappointment.

2303100D0C620 wrote: I think there's something else to this.  If all of everyone's deepest fantasies are true and it is all about money, there are lots of people other than Juan Nicasio that could have been waived. 


No, that's not accurate. Any player that ends up getting released, still has to be paid by The Pirates, unless another team picks them up.



Nicasio is having a nice season and should immediately be grabbed. Then Nutting don't have to pay his remaining salary. If they were to do the same with say Jaso or Hudson and no team picks them up, Nutting still has to pay them.


So there are no other players on the team that could be put on waivers and get picked up?

725F52434455420201300 wrote: The market for middle relief pitchers never materialized and became nonexistent after the standard trade deadline. People seem to be forgetting that we just got George Kontos for free. Kontos has had a better career and has control remaining but the Giants got nothing for him.
Not the same situation.



SF got nothing for Kontos but he was not doing well for them. He was 0-5 in relief. At the time he was waived, he had been scored upon in 8 of his previous 12 Giants' games. During that time his ERA had ballooned from 2.68 to 3.83 with 15 hits and 10 ER (12 total runs) in 11.1 innings in that stretch. SF needed a roster spot for Chris Stratton, Kontos was the obvious choice to go and apparently no team (including the Pirates) was willing to give up anything for the struggling 32 year old.   

Nicasio is having a good season as their 2nd best reliever, used as their 8th inning setup guy. He's 2 years younger than Kontos. They don't need to open a roster spot. They don't need to move the pittance of salary they now owe him and if they did, he has a lot more value than Kontos. If there's no trade market for him, he could at least be of value the remaining month of the season to the Pirates. Kontos had no value to SF when he was waived. 


It is the exact same situation. How the Giants allegedly felt about Kontos isn't any more relevant to his market than how the Pirates feel about Nicasio. The other 29 teams set the market. In both instances, there was none. The notion than other teams would value Kontos less is highly doubtful.

183D2E3B272C2726232B4F0 wrote: The market for middle relief pitchers never materialized and became nonexistent after the standard trade deadline. People seem to be forgetting that we just got George Kontos for free. Kontos has had a better career and has control remaining but the Giants got nothing for him.
Not the same situation.



SF got nothing for Kontos but he was not doing well for them. He was 0-5 in relief. At the time he was waived, he had been scored upon in 8 of his previous 12 Giants' games. During that time his ERA had ballooned from 2.68 to 3.83 with 15 hits and 10 ER (12 total runs) in 11.1 innings in that stretch. SF needed a roster spot for Chris Stratton, Kontos was the obvious choice to go and apparently no team (including the Pirates) was willing to give up anything for the struggling 32 year old.   

Nicasio is having a good season as their 2nd best reliever, used as their 8th inning setup guy. He's 2 years younger than Kontos. They don't need to open a roster spot. They don't need to move the pittance of salary they now owe him and if they did, he has a lot more value than Kontos. If there's no trade market for him, he could at least be of value the remaining month of the season to the Pirates. Kontos had no value to SF when he was waived. 


It is the exact same situation.  How the Giants allegedly felt about Kontos isn't any more relevant to his market than how the Pirates feel about Nicasio. The other 29 teams set the market. In both instances, there was none. The notion than other teams would value Kontos less is highly doubtful.


But if he (Nicasio) were put on revocable waivers and pulled earlier in the month, there's no reason why the Pirates shouldn't have taken a deal from the claiming team however crummy if they were dead-set on just releasing him anyway.

120F2B2927420 wrote: The market for middle relief pitchers never materialized and became nonexistent after the standard trade deadline. People seem to be forgetting that we just got George Kontos for free. Kontos has had a better career and has control remaining but the Giants got nothing for him.
Not the same situation.



SF got nothing for Kontos but he was not doing well for them. He was 0-5 in relief. At the time he was waived, he had been scored upon in 8 of his previous 12 Giants' games. During that time his ERA had ballooned from 2.68 to 3.83 with 15 hits and 10 ER (12 total runs) in 11.1 innings in that stretch. SF needed a roster spot for Chris Stratton, Kontos was the obvious choice to go and apparently no team (including the Pirates) was willing to give up anything for the struggling 32 year old.   

Nicasio is having a good season as their 2nd best reliever, used as their 8th inning setup guy. He's 2 years younger than Kontos. They don't need to open a roster spot. They don't need to move the pittance of salary they now owe him and if they did, he has a lot more value than Kontos. If there's no trade market for him, he could at least be of value the remaining month of the season to the Pirates. Kontos had no value to SF when he was waived. 


Kontos may be a bit older, but he is under contract for next year.  Nicasio isn't.



I don't get the angst about this at all.  This team isn't making the playoffs.  When the roster expands, (I hope) a bunch of innings are going to go to younger pitchers who are currently in AAA.  There is no need for Nicasio around



Clearly there was no market for Nicasio.  There is no way they would have given him up for nothing if there was someone willing to trade.  It may be fun to say how stupid the FO is, but that would miss that opportunity.  They just wouldn't.


The angst is this.  NH got two prospects for Tony Watson, a soon to be free agent that was mediocre at best for the Bucs prior to the trade deadline.  They couldn't get anything for their second best and second most consistent arm in the bullpen? That is where my angst comes from. They could have traded him at the deadline, but chose not to because they thought they were still alive for the playoffs (lol). If they were going to do this later, why pull him back earlier? They could have dealt him and saved more $$$.