OnlyBucs

7E58594E58483B0 wrote: Ok, at least you have a reason.  Not sure I agree.  I do give Huntington the benefit of the doubt based on how bad the system was when he took over.  I did expect more time to make the team into a winner.  I understand if others don't think that way.



Hurdle does have a winning record as the Pirates' manager.  In seven years he has had three winning seasons and an overall winning percentage of .515*.  (*Baseball Reference)



Very bad season endings in 2011 and 2012.  I am not sure what happened those years, but I kind of chalk those seasons up as rebuilding years.  Yes, the last two years have been bad.  Hurdle should be better, but watching the playoffs and all these moves, every manager seems to do some bad strategies/moves.  Even the "best" ones.



I do think Huntington did a very good job by surrounding McCutchen with talent.  One player in baseball can't do it all. 



Huntington needs to draft better.  That's his biggest issue in my opinion.  Only a few impact (starters, successful) players through the draft.  This needs to improve.  But he has done it before.  He was given a chance to get back to being a contender, so we will see.


I add that he has failed by his own goals.  Remember, he is the one that said he wanted to build a team that is a contender for championships year in and year out.  That was supposedly one reason the rebuild was taking so long.  He wasn't going for a quick fix. 



He doesn't believe in windows that is why he wants the year in and year out contender.  Well his plan got the team up to contender in 7 years but it turned out the window shut after 3 years. 


You are correct.  Weird to say that to begin with, but does set yourself up.  Every team should have that goal, by the way.  People take coaches and GMs literally and it usually backfires. 



Who said "five year plan"?  Was it Bonifay? Littlefield?  Anyway, bad to say out loud.  Pretty sure that person was fired in year four of his "plan". 

7F5C49494840434D48495E14142C0 wrote: If they don't know enough to spend a little more leading up the the signing of a new TV contract in order to boost excitement, competitiveness and ratings, then they deserve the bad contract they're going to get - and we deserve to find another team to follow. 



I might just give up following baseball altogether.  It's hard enough to follow the team when you're out-of-area.


I quit following the NFL and my life hasn't devolved, I suspect I could quit following the Pirates and my life wouldn't spiral out of control.  Now if I had to quit the Pens......... that might be more than I could bare!  Kinda weird.... I used to feel that way about the Pirates.


I couldn't give up the NFL or especially college football and be very happy about it.



NFL games are all network, so could still get them off an antenna if needed.. Not watching college football on Saturdays may cause me depression, so couldn't give it up.

I have a hard time buying the "it's all Hurdle's fault" stuff. I was really stoked to watch this playoff baseball because I was hoping for some well played and well managed baseball. Instead, it has been mind numbingly terrible baseball. Managers knee jerking reactions to taking starters and relievers out after walking one or two guys. Terrible physical and mental errors all over the place. And it isn't the "young" teams. It is the Nats and Indians with their veteran players and superstars looking clueless.



Is this just baseball now? These playoffs are heading down a surreal path. Nothing looks smooth or in sync.

212A222E2B2A317472053C242D2A2A6B262A450 wrote: Ok, at least you have a reason.  Not sure I agree.  I do give Huntington the benefit of the doubt based on how bad the system was when he took over.  I did expect more time to make the team into a winner.  I understand if others don't think that way.



Hurdle does have a winning record as the Pirates' manager.  In seven years he has had three winning seasons and an overall winning percentage of .515*.  (*Baseball Reference)



Very bad season endings in 2011 and 2012.  I am not sure what happened those years, but I kind of chalk those seasons up as rebuilding years.  Yes, the last two years have been bad.  Hurdle should be better, but watching the playoffs and all these moves, every manager seems to do some bad strategies/moves.  Even the "best" ones.



I do think Huntington did a very good job by surrounding McCutchen with talent.  One player in baseball can't do it all. 



Huntington needs to draft better.  That's his biggest issue in my opinion.  Only a few impact (starters, successful) players through the draft.  This needs to improve.  But he has done it before.  He was given a chance to get back to being a contender, so we will see.
Sorry Skinny; I have to agree with Dog on this. He has his facts straight; you do not

It makes no sense to say that NH needs to draft better, but that he's done it before. His domestic draft classes have been arriving only the past 3-4 seasons. 



Considering the very high draft positions we held of the classes that have come through (vs what will be coming through now), the opposite of "he's done it before" would be true. A head scratching statement.

I think it's hard to evaluate drafting ability. I suspect most other teams would have made the same picks of Alvarez, Cole and Taillon. Bell looks like a good pick. Connor Joe not so much. Tony Sanchez was a bad pick made only for financial reasons. Jury's still out on Kuhl and Glasnow as well as Tucker, Meadows, Newman and Kramer. And McGuire.

The jury is still out on drafts from 4-5 years ago. No doubt about it.   While it seems unlikely, it's possible that the classes that will hit in the next 1-3 years will be awesome.  So I'm not declaring them to be bad, or anything like that.



  The classes that have arrived and that enough time has passed for the jury to be either deliberating or already decided? Well, they weren't very good. Especially when the draft positions for those classes is taken into account.



So what has he done before that he will do again with respect to drafting?  Seems like either draft poorly, or get unlucky.  I'll take door #3.

Pirates finished 2016 season in 18th place in fWAR from drafts since '08 in all of MLB. After 2017, they are 19th.



The results are bad and there's simply no logical way of excusing or sugarcoating. Especially when you consider the priority, resources and drafting position of those early NH drafts.



Now, maybe it will improve. Obviously no one knows. But to suggest it will is blind faith. Seems to me, the best predictor of future results is previous results.

Although it will almost definitely increase, I wonder if the Pirates missed the window to really benefit from their next TV contract.



it looks like we might be at the much anticipated live rights bubble. People are cutting cable services (many young people skip it from the start). ESPN is cutting people left and right. And teams like the Dodgers and the Astros have problems getting contracts as big as they thought they could.



On top of all of that, the Pirates, attendance and their TV ratings are all headed the wrong way. Even if the team did bounce back next season, there's little chance they can reach the heights of 2015. So the Bucs' bargaining position is weakened.



I used to think that a new TV contract would be the key to a bigger payroll. Not any more.

082F24074A0 wrote: Although it will almost definitely increase, I wonder if the Pirates missed the window to really benefit from their next TV contract.



it looks like we might be at the much anticipated live rights bubble. People are cutting cable services (many young people skip it from the start). ESPN is cutting people left and right. And teams like the Dodgers and the Astros have problems getting contracts as big as they thought they could.



On top of all of that, the Pirates, attendance and their TV ratings are all headed the wrong way. Even if the team did bounce back next season, there's little chance they can reach the heights of 2015. So the Bucs' bargaining position is weakened.



I used to think that a new TV contract would be the key to a bigger payroll. Not any more.
I just can't believe Nutting is not a smart enough businessman to anticipate the reduced TV ratings and stadium attendance after skimping on payroll and letting the team decline. I have to think he believes he can still turn a profit by keeping payroll low even when it reduces revenue. I think NH's job is to do as much as he can with limited financial resources to make fans feel the team has a chance. As long as they can hover around .500 there's always the hope that they will get better later in the season, even if they don't. I believe that's the plan. Another lackluster, inexpensive off season is likely. Maybe they can find the next Ryan Vogelsong and sell it as a key acquisition.