OnlyBucs

Agree. See Giancarlo Stanton on the Marlins.

I agree also, but look back a couple years after a 98 win season and a perfect opportunity to add a FA or two to get them to the next level, but no they didn't add and ended up possibly starting these last two years of losing instead by their inaction.

28293223357572460 wrote: Interesting thread and I've been thinking with the rumors of trade Cole, Harrison, Cutch, etc. what this team and payroll will look like in 2018.



If those trades are made for prospects or ML ready players, the payroll likely won't hit $80M. With the influx of an extra one year bonus of $50M, wouldn't this be a good time to secure some FA's and give the fans a decent team to cheer for?



I know it's early and nothing much but rumors abound, but I'm not confident this owner is going to spend anything to give us fans some hope. :'(


I think it's Harrison's inclusion in the Cole talks that caused me to see a different angle.  I originally thought the best option was to trade anyone and anything that COULD bring some value within the next couple years. Then I read about and listen to Williams: if we move Josh it's primarily to dump salary. We'll get a nice piece I'm sure that MAY contribute in the next few years.  But the best use of Josh's contract is on Josh. He would be the perfect "team  Captain" to start building around. It seems to me....




If the Pirates think they have a replacement in Adam Frazier, wouldn't it be wise and a baseball move to trade him for value to fill in other areas? 



Not every trade is a "salary dump".  Players get replaced by cheaper, younger players all the time.  That's the circle of baseball life.


Frazier isn't a replacement for Harrison. He can't do what Harrison does at the same level. He will never be good enough on defense. I can't see Frazier taking over 2nd base full time.


Agree, but I can see him taking over second easily. You know the reason why ... this is the Pirates.

7868695E4848442B0 wrote: Interesting thread and I've been thinking with the rumors of trade Cole, Harrison, Cutch, etc. what this team and payroll will look like in 2018.



If those trades are made for prospects or ML ready players, the payroll likely won't hit $80M. With the influx of an extra one year bonus of $50M, wouldn't this be a good time to secure some FA's and give the fans a decent team to cheer for?



I know it's early and nothing much but rumors abound, but I'm not confident this owner is going to spend anything to give us fans some hope. :'(


I think it's Harrison's inclusion in the Cole talks that caused me to see a different angle.  I originally thought the best option was to trade anyone and anything that COULD bring some value within the next couple years. Then I read about and listen to Williams: if we move Josh it's primarily to dump salary. We'll get a nice piece I'm sure that MAY contribute in the next few years.  But the best use of Josh's contract is on Josh. He would be the perfect "team  Captain" to start building around. It seems to me....




If the Pirates think they have a replacement in Adam Frazier, wouldn't it be wise and a baseball move to trade him for value to fill in other areas? 



Not every trade is a "salary dump".  Players get replaced by cheaper, younger players all the time.  That's the circle of baseball life.


Frazier isn't a replacement for Harrison. He can't do what Harrison does at the same level. He will never be good enough on defense. I can't see Frazier taking over 2nd base full time.


Agree, but I can see him taking over second easily.  You know the reason why ... this is the Pirates.
Yep. That is also why we will see a lot of the veteranosity of S-Rod.

67667D6C7A3A3D090 wrote:

Yep. That is also why we will see a lot of the veteranosity of S-Rod.




Don't forget that there was talk of signing Rodriguez last year and trading Harrison.

I think it necessary to point out two key differences between Votto and Homer Bailey.



Difference 1:. One is a pitcher, through other is a 1bman



Difference 2:. One completely sucks, the other is MVP runner up.



Other than that, alot in common those two!

525B53424C360 wrote: I think it necessary to point out two key differences between Votto and Homer Bailey.



Difference 1:. One is a pitcher, through other is a 1bman



Difference 2:. One completely sucks, the other is MVP runner up.



Other than that, alot in common those two!


Votto is one of my favorite players.  Criminally underrated, loyal to his fans (he's invoked his no trade clause having no interest in leaving) signed to a decent deal for a long time, by all accounts that I know of a good guy.  Yet despite all of that his reasonable deal is bringing a historic franchise down which tells me all I need to know about the state of today's mlb



Now I would warn against making too much about people lauding his "plan" of building around votto. He has no option. They're already tried trading him.

It's all relative though.  We pay Cutch and Cervelli as much as the reds pay Votto. Alot of teams out there getting much much worse milage out of 25 mil per.  



I don't think vottos contract is bad at all really. (Though I know a bunch do just because)   I think large swaths of fanbases have been conditioned into pretending like they own the team.  The grass is always greener 3-5 years from now.



A bird is the hand is NEVER worth two in the bush, because those are two baby eagles in the bush.  Can't miss Eagles! Guaranteed to be Eagles!

No it's a decent deal and good on the reds fans for being able to see him in their colors for a long time.  So it's telling that they were really trying to move him earlier.  Not a mark against the reds mgmt mind you but the mlb



But if it were up to the reds FO he would have been traded a year or two ago, probably to the red Sox or someone hateable like that.

The Reds are stuck with Bailey. $20M+ for two more seasons for a 31 year-old pitcher who hasn't stayed healthy in three years and has pitched to a 6+ ERA is a bad contract. If we had to ship off McGuire and Ramirez to get rid of Liriano's contract, what would it cost the Reds to unload Bailey?



I think they are also stuck with Votto. Given his age-defying performance, his contract has looked okay. But he's 34 and doing what almost no one else has done, i.e. maintaining MVP-level performance past age 31. It is extremely unlikely that he'll be able to play at anywhere near this level for another year or two never mind for another six years.



You could get a lot more value out his $29M as well. Nolan Arenado's 2-year contract buying out his Arb-2 and 3 years cost $29M total. That would leave another $29M to spend over those two years on top of having Arenado. The kernel of truth in Williams' statement is that he cannot acquire that talent in MLB's system. You just cannot acquire young, pre-FA talent. No one is trading guys like Arenado. So, Williams or Huntington or any GM cannot manufacture trades for those guys. Cole is one of the very few exceptions. So, in that sense, Huntington is right to hold out for a major haul.