OnlyBucs

6F5D51514577545D50555A5D3C0 wrote: File a grievance against him, cut him, and not pay him.  Would Freese be willing to walk away from his contract?



If this is true, I take back my post about him being a good, positive veteran presence in the clubhouse.  It also seems to be some kind of agenda by the media asking all these negative questions.  It's certainly working to get the fans against the organization.  Is it enough to get Nutting to sell?  That has to be the agenda, right?


29 minutes later:



He had reasons and took some blame.  He also can be a man in that clubhouse to turn around that energy.  I liked how he said how everyone can do better and gave praise to the young guys saying they can be stars.


Sometimes I wonder if there re two different people posting from Dog's account.


If you just hear "he ripped the team" instead of seeing the exact words, of course your opinion can change.  Geez.


He DID rip the team. One of the most damning interviews I’ve ever seen because he shot straight. The FO better be reeling from these words.

My thoughts:



I sincerely appreciate David’s words and the tone they appear to have been spoken. He didn’t resort to hyperbole or accusations or anger. Made all the more powerful as a result.



I’ve been saying for two years this team lacked leadership and heart. There are people with heart, JHay for example, but it was CLEAR the clubhouse was influenced much more by a few people that never felt the need to play 100%. Marte is at the top of that list in MHO. Polanco was affected big time. Management did nothing.



Contrast the honesty of David to th TOTAL BS of Neal and Clint. I wanted to puke this week when Hurdle referenced a World Series to this organization. How disengenous can someone be. I realized as soon as he said it - he’s here to collect a pay check. No accountability. No honestly. No fire. Just more BS thrown at the fans. Mr Hurdle no longer plays for pride. Just a job.



Those final comments about being drafted into the Pirate system? David knows what josh Bell, Jamison, all of, he knows what they believe about the organization.



Finally, the 2016 season. He’s acknowledging that the FO/ownership allowed the 2015 to be tossed into a garbage can. Within one day the team KNEW the truth. So did some fans. I was furious over the crap the fans were being told before 2016. I hate to say this: I was 100% right in feeling betrayed and lied to.



Good for David, JHay and anyone that speaks the truth.

0E2E3D20214F0 wrote: File a grievance against him, cut him, and not pay him.  Would Freese be willing to walk away from his contract?



If this is true, I take back my post about him being a good, positive veteran presence in the clubhouse.  It also seems to be some kind of agenda by the media asking all these negative questions.  It's certainly working to get the fans against the organization.  Is it enough to get Nutting to sell?  That has to be the agenda, right?


29 minutes later:



He had reasons and took some blame.  He also can be a man in that clubhouse to turn around that energy.  I liked how he said how everyone can do better and gave praise to the young guys saying they can be stars.


Sometimes I wonder if there re two different people posting from Dog's account.


I think its pretty obvious from the two posts that the first one was a reaction to the original post in this thread and the second was to the article itself after he read it.

Some things to talk about here:



1. How did our losing atmosphere become a winning one?

2. How did our winning atmosphere become a losing one?

3. How do we get that winning atmosphere back?



I think its more likely that Bell will become a team leader than Marte. I'm not sure why, but that's what my gut instinct tells me.

6269616D6869723731467F676E6969286569060 wrote: Wow.  I didn't hear or see the quotes.



File a grievance against him, cut him, and not pay him.  Would Freese be willing to walk away from his contract?



If this is true, I take back my post about him being a good, positive veteran presence in the clubhouse.  It also seems to be some kind of agenda by the media asking all these negative questions.  It's certainly working to get the fans against the organization.  Is it enough to get Nutting to sell?  That has to be the agenda, right? 


There is zero problem for a player saying this in this instance if the proof is in the pudding.  Harrison essentially said the same thing with his trade request that there is no direction in this organization to challenge for a play off spot in the near future.



Cole said it ... Harrison said it in a round about way ... Freese is saying it.  They all see it, the vets see it.  There needs to be some balance off the words of our owner, GM and manager who are way off base with their comments.


It's how you say it.  Freese was respectful and professional about it.  Cole was not.  There's a big difference.


Cole doesn't have to be respectful.  He isn't on the Pirates roster anymore.  He isn't collecting a pay check from the Pirates anymore. Not like NH can suspend him for the comments. Freese is still on the roster, last time I checked and I'm not sure teams would be lining up giving the Pirates a call to ask for him via trade.  Big difference.



This organization should be ripped.

First - thank you David Freese. I have advocated that the team trade you. I am now hoping that they do trade you. And, not because of what you said or how you said it, but because you deserve better than the crap that permeates this team and organization.



Second - I was very disappointed when the Pirates chose to hand Hurdle another 4 year contract. While managers can't hit, field or pitch, I believe that they are responsible for much of the culture in the clubhouse. What I believe I hear Freese saying the loudest is that too many simply determined that that losing was acceptable. A good manager cannot let that become the pervasive attitude. I sure hope that Hurdle heard what Freese said and fully grasps that he needs to do more than spinning about how it would feel to win the Series.



Continuing, today is the worst and best that I have felt about being a Pirate fan this off-season. I feel bad because what I thought I saw on the field last year was the case, and I feel good because a player had the chops to come out and say it.

3E3B3C3A3238213C3526202D540 wrote: Some things to talk about here:



1. How did our losing atmosphere become a winning one?

2. How did our winning atmosphere become a losing one?

3. How do we get that winning atmosphere back?



I think its more likely that Bell will become a team leader than Marte.  I'm not sure why, but that's what my gut instinct tells me.


Excellent questions. I think the additions of A. J. Burnett and Russell Martin played a big part in changing a 20 year culture of expecting to lose. Those players had known success and expected it, and talented players like Cutch and Walker, who had only known failure despite their abilities, began to see that winning was actually possible because Burnett and Martin believed it and expected others to buy into it. The team gradually improved, culminating in 98 wins in 2015 because by then everyone expected to win.



I think it changed in 2016. Martin had left, Burnett retired, Happ was not resigned, and mgt inexplicably signed a washed up 38 year old Vogelsong to start and a 2nd string catcher with little power (Jaso) to play 1B. Not only had mgt diluted the talent on the roster but the players clearly saw the lack of commitment by the BMTIB. That led to losing the majority of games and after 2 years of the same lack of commitment, the expectation of losing has returned.



Now only a handful of players are left who experienced winning seasons and mgt's apparent priority to save money rather than assemble talent gives the current roster no reason to change their expectation of losing. Especially when NH announced the Cutch and Cole trades while explaining the trades represent a step back for the team. To reverse that, mgt needs to step up and add talent including leaders who have experienced winning and will expect their teammates to do the same. But the last 3 off seasons have sent the team spiraling in a downward direction. The players see it and know they're fighting a losing battle.

6A474A5B5C4D5A1A19280 wrote: Some things to talk about here:



1. How did our losing atmosphere become a winning one?

2. How did our winning atmosphere become a losing one?

3. How do we get that winning atmosphere back?



I think its more likely that Bell will become a team leader than Marte.  I'm not sure why, but that's what my gut instinct tells me.


Excellent questions. I think the additions of A. J. Burnett and Russell Martin played a big part in changing a 20 year culture of expecting to lose. Those players had known success and expected it, and talented players like Cutch and Walker, who had only known failure despite their abilities, began to see that winning was actually possible because Burnett and Martin believed it and expected others to buy into it. The team gradually improved, culminating in 98 wins in 2015 because by then everyone expected to win.



I think it changed in 2016. Martin had left, Burnett retired, Happ was not resigned, and mgt inexplicably signed a washed up 38 year old Vogelsong to start and a 2nd string catcher with little power (Jaso) to play 1B. Not only had mgt diluted the talent on the roster but the players clearly saw the lack of commitment by the BMTIB. That led to losing the majority of games and after 2 years of the same lack of commitment, the expectation  of losing has returned. 



Now only a handful of players are left who experienced winning seasons and mgt's apparent priority to save money rather than assemble talent gives the current roster no reason to change their expectation of losing. Especially when NH announced the Cutch and Cole trades while explaining the trades represent a step back for the team. To reverse that, mgt needs to step up and add talent including leaders who have experienced winning and will expect their teammates to do the same. But the last 3 off seasons have sent the team spiraling in a downward direction. The players see it and know they're fighting a losing battle.   




I think you're right on it Bobster. Burnett and Martin were exceptional leaders, and the right spark at the right time to light a fire under a ballclub that had been down so very long.



The departure of those two plus the pathetic soul draining moves of TBMIB after the 2015 season was enough to adversely effect the atmosphere of a planet not to mention a clubhouse.



How do we get it back? A good start would be Nutting selling the team to someone who is willing to adequately fund a competitive major league franchise.

I am pleased that Freese spoke his mind about the entire organization. I have to wonder though if after hearing him speak out about the organization if there are any free agents who would agree to sign a contract with the Bucs at this time. I am sure they now have to overpay to get one to join the team.

646869323B323A37302F35020 wrote: I am pleased that Freese spoke his mind about the entire organization. I have to wonder though if after hearing him speak out about the organization if there are any free agents who would agree to sign a contract with the Bucs at this time. I am sure they now have to overpay to get one to join the team.


This is a very good point.