OnlyBucs

28293223357572460 wrote: One OF spot and 3B were huge holes.  Moran can't be worse than the guys who tried to play 3B last year.  Marte has to be better than what the Pirates tried in LF all year.  The health of Cervelli and Polanco will help the offense too. 



Four positions that should be upgrades.  Hopefully, the loss of McCutchen isn't that big of a drop off and can be made up by others.
Hold on a second. Freese had a pretty decent season overall. He amassed 2 WAR. The offense was basically league average with a OPS+ of 96. He did have an .OBP of .368. His defense was above average.


I would expect better results from a guy who batted 4th or 5th most of the time. Freese even admitted that he was tired. Third base was a huge drop off from 2015 and 2016. The position got worse in 2017. It even opened up other holes when Harrison was moved to play there making second base much worse.

3338303C3938236660172E363F3838793438570 wrote: One OF spot and 3B were huge holes.  Moran can't be worse than the guys who tried to play 3B last year.  Marte has to be better than what the Pirates tried in LF all year.  The health of Cervelli and Polanco will help the offense too. 



Four positions that should be upgrades.  Hopefully, the loss of McCutchen isn't that big of a drop off and can be made up by others.
Hold on a second. Freese had a pretty decent season overall. He amassed 2 WAR. The offense was basically league average with a OPS+ of 96. He did have an .OBP of .368. His defense was above average.


I would expect better results from a guy who batted 4th or 5th most of the time.  Freese even admitted that he was tired.  Third base was a huge drop off from 2015 and 2016. The position got worse in 2017.  It even opened up other holes when Harrison was moved to play there making second base much worse.






But that's not what you said. We aren't comparing 2015 and 2016. We are comparing 2017 and what we will hope to see in 2018. What type of numbers do you expect from Moran? I think he will struggle to put up a 2 WAR season.

51504B5A4C0C0B3F0 wrote: One OF spot and 3B were huge holes.  Moran can't be worse than the guys who tried to play 3B last year.  Marte has to be better than what the Pirates tried in LF all year.  The health of Cervelli and Polanco will help the offense too. 



Four positions that should be upgrades.  Hopefully, the loss of McCutchen isn't that big of a drop off and can be made up by others.
Hold on a second. Freese had a pretty decent season overall. He amassed 2 WAR. The offense was basically league average with a OPS+ of 96. He did have an .OBP of .368. His defense was above average.


I would expect better results from a guy who batted 4th or 5th most of the time.  Freese even admitted that he was tired.  Third base was a huge drop off from 2015 and 2016. The position got worse in 2017.  It even opened up other holes when Harrison was moved to play there making second base much worse.






But that's not what you said. We aren't comparing 2015 and 2016. We are comparing 2017 and what we will hope to see in 2018. What type of numbers do you expect from Moran? I think he will struggle to put up a 2 WAR season.


I don't believe in WAR stats, it is an estimate.  But the overall team 3B WAR (baseball-reference) was 0.8.



Of qualified NL 3B, Freese was 7th in average, 6th in OBP, 10th in Slugging, and 9th in OPS. 



Sorry for using the word "huge", but overall I felt 3B needed addressed.  It was a drop off from previous years so that should matter as the position got worse.



I expect better numbers for Moran, but also understand that he is a rookie and will have some growing pains.  A 35 year old Freese wouldn't give me that same hope going forward.

3C3D2637216166520 wrote: One OF spot and 3B were huge holes.  Moran can't be worse than the guys who tried to play 3B last year.  Marte has to be better than what the Pirates tried in LF all year.  The health of Cervelli and Polanco will help the offense too. 



Four positions that should be upgrades.  Hopefully, the loss of McCutchen isn't that big of a drop off and can be made up by others.
Hold on a second. Freese had a pretty decent season overall. He amassed 2 WAR. The offense was basically league average with a OPS+ of 96. He did have an .OBP of .368. His defense was above average.


I would expect better results from a guy who batted 4th or 5th most of the time.  Freese even admitted that he was tired.  Third base was a huge drop off from 2015 and 2016. The position got worse in 2017.  It even opened up other holes when Harrison was moved to play there making second base much worse.






But that's not what you said. We aren't comparing 2015 and 2016. We are comparing 2017 and what we will hope to see in 2018. What type of numbers do you expect from Moran? I think he will struggle to put up a 2 WAR season.
Last year, offense from the 3B players was .255/.340/.378/.718 with 22 2Bs, 17 HRs and 69 RBIs. Less than what they would have expected from Kang but not so awful that "Moran can't be worse." As a rookie, I think they'd be satisfied with that from Moran.



https://www.baseball-reference.com/team ... &year=2017

230E03121504135350610 wrote: One OF spot and 3B were huge holes.  Moran can't be worse than the guys who tried to play 3B last year.  Marte has to be better than what the Pirates tried in LF all year.  The health of Cervelli and Polanco will help the offense too. 



Four positions that should be upgrades.  Hopefully, the loss of McCutchen isn't that big of a drop off and can be made up by others.
Hold on a second. Freese had a pretty decent season overall. He amassed 2 WAR. The offense was basically league average with a OPS+ of 96. He did have an .OBP of .368. His defense was above average.


I would expect better results from a guy who batted 4th or 5th most of the time.  Freese even admitted that he was tired.  Third base was a huge drop off from 2015 and 2016. The position got worse in 2017.  It even opened up other holes when Harrison was moved to play there making second base much worse.






But that's not what you said. We aren't comparing 2015 and 2016. We are comparing 2017 and what we will hope to see in 2018. What type of numbers do you expect from Moran? I think he will struggle to put up a 2 WAR season.
Last year, offense from the 3B players was .255/.340/.378/.718 with 22 2Bs, 17 HRs and 69 RBIs. Less than what they would have expected from Kang but not so awful that "Moran can't be worse." As a rookie, I think they'd be satisfied with that from Moran.



https://www.baseball-reference.com/team ... &year=2017


Moran is currently projected to only hit 11 home runs, but that is with only 374 AB's. I hope the new found power is real, but I have reservations. He is going to have to be very good with the bat because by all indications the glove isn't good.

666D65696C6D763335427B636A6D6D2C616D020 wrote: One OF spot and 3B were huge holes.  Moran can't be worse than the guys who tried to play 3B last year.  Marte has to be better than what the Pirates tried in LF all year.  The health of Cervelli and Polanco will help the offense too. 



Four positions that should be upgrades.  Hopefully, the loss of McCutchen isn't that big of a drop off and can be made up by others.
Hold on a second. Freese had a pretty decent season overall. He amassed 2 WAR. The offense was basically league average with a OPS+ of 96. He did have an .OBP of .368. His defense was above average.


I would expect better results from a guy who batted 4th or 5th most of the time.  Freese even admitted that he was tired.  Third base was a huge drop off from 2015 and 2016. The position got worse in 2017.  It even opened up other holes when Harrison was moved to play there making second base much worse.






But that's not what you said. We aren't comparing 2015 and 2016. We are comparing 2017 and what we will hope to see in 2018. What type of numbers do you expect from Moran? I think he will struggle to put up a 2 WAR season.


I don't believe in WAR stats, it is an estimate.  But the overall team 3B WAR (baseball-reference) was 0.8.



Of qualified NL 3B, Freese was 7th in average, 6th in OBP, 10th in Slugging, and 9th in OPS. 



Sorry for using the word "huge", but overall I felt 3B needed addressed.  It was a drop off from previous years so that should matter as the position got worse.



I expect better numbers for Moran, but also understand that he is a rookie and will have some growing pains.  A 35 year old Freese wouldn't give me that same hope going forward.


Once again you wonder why you get called out. 3rd base is still going to see a drop off from 2015 and 2016, but that's not what we were discussing. The stats are also incorrect Freese did in fact put up a 2 WAR, it's irrelevant whether you like the stat or not it is used across baseball as an indicator of play.

77766D7C6A2A2D190 wrote: One OF spot and 3B were huge holes.  Moran can't be worse than the guys who tried to play 3B last year.  Marte has to be better than what the Pirates tried in LF all year.  The health of Cervelli and Polanco will help the offense too. 



Four positions that should be upgrades.  Hopefully, the loss of McCutchen isn't that big of a drop off and can be made up by others.
Hold on a second. Freese had a pretty decent season overall. He amassed 2 WAR. The offense was basically league average with a OPS+ of 96. He did have an .OBP of .368. His defense was above average.


I would expect better results from a guy who batted 4th or 5th most of the time.  Freese even admitted that he was tired.  Third base was a huge drop off from 2015 and 2016. The position got worse in 2017.  It even opened up other holes when Harrison was moved to play there making second base much worse.






But that's not what you said. We aren't comparing 2015 and 2016. We are comparing 2017 and what we will hope to see in 2018. What type of numbers do you expect from Moran? I think he will struggle to put up a 2 WAR season.


I don't believe in WAR stats, it is an estimate.  But the overall team 3B WAR (baseball-reference) was 0.8.



Of qualified NL 3B, Freese was 7th in average, 6th in OBP, 10th in Slugging, and 9th in OPS. 



Sorry for using the word "huge", but overall I felt 3B needed addressed.  It was a drop off from previous years so that should matter as the position got worse.



I expect better numbers for Moran, but also understand that he is a rookie and will have some growing pains.  A 35 year old Freese wouldn't give me that same hope going forward.


Once again you wonder why you get called out. 3rd base is still going to see a drop off from 2015 and 2016, but that's not what we were discussing. The stats are also incorrect Freese did in fact put up a 2 WAR, it's irrelevant whether you like the stat or not it is used across baseball as an indicator of play.


What am I being called out on? Freese was still 9th in WAR in the NL. It is a bad stat. It is an estimate. I used baseball reference for my stats.



You think the Pirates were a plus at 3B in 2017? If you do, I think you are in the minority. It was a problem position and needed addressed. It was addressed too. That position needs to get back to the 2015 and 2016 production when the position was stable. Freese is not that answer going forward. Moran could be.

757E767A7F7E652026516870797E7E3F727E110 wrote: One OF spot and 3B were huge holes.  Moran can't be worse than the guys who tried to play 3B last year.  Marte has to be better than what the Pirates tried in LF all year.  The health of Cervelli and Polanco will help the offense too. 



Four positions that should be upgrades.  Hopefully, the loss of McCutchen isn't that big of a drop off and can be made up by others.
Hold on a second. Freese had a pretty decent season overall. He amassed 2 WAR. The offense was basically league average with a OPS+ of 96. He did have an .OBP of .368. His defense was above average.


I would expect better results from a guy who batted 4th or 5th most of the time.  Freese even admitted that he was tired.  Third base was a huge drop off from 2015 and 2016. The position got worse in 2017.  It even opened up other holes when Harrison was moved to play there making second base much worse.






But that's not what you said. We aren't comparing 2015 and 2016. We are comparing 2017 and what we will hope to see in 2018. What type of numbers do you expect from Moran? I think he will struggle to put up a 2 WAR season.


I don't believe in WAR stats, it is an estimate.  But the overall team 3B WAR (baseball-reference) was 0.8.



Of qualified NL 3B, Freese was 7th in average, 6th in OBP, 10th in Slugging, and 9th in OPS. 



Sorry for using the word "huge", but overall I felt 3B needed addressed.  It was a drop off from previous years so that should matter as the position got worse.



I expect better numbers for Moran, but also understand that he is a rookie and will have some growing pains.  A 35 year old Freese wouldn't give me that same hope going forward.


Once again you wonder why you get called out. 3rd base is still going to see a drop off from 2015 and 2016, but that's not what we were discussing. The stats are also incorrect Freese did in fact put up a 2 WAR, it's irrelevant whether you like the stat or not it is used across baseball as an indicator of play.


What am I being called out on?  Freese was still 9th in WAR in the NL.  It is a bad stat.  It is an estimate.  I used baseball reference for my stats. 



You think the Pirates were a plus at 3B in 2017?  If you do, I think you are in the minority.  It was a problem position and needed addressed.  It was addressed too.  That position needs to get back to the 2015 and 2016 production when the position was stable.  Freese is not that answer going forward.  Moran could be.


No but I don't think it was a "huge" hole either and I never once said anything about 3rd being a plus. Stop making things up. Please tell me is 3rd going to be a plus for 2018? Freese was far from the biggest problem last year, and it wasn't his fault he was miscast as a 4 or 5 hitter. You were being misleading when you said 3rd base had a .8 WAR. I said FREESE had 2 WAR. I get it you only like to use stats that suite your personal agenda.

I brought up 3B. You brought up Freese.



The 3B position should be better overall. The depth and players expected to play that position are better than the guys who played that position last year.

363D35393C3D266365122B333A3D3D7C313D520 wrote: I brought up 3B. You brought up Freese.



The 3B position should be better overall. The depth and players expected to play that position are better than the guys who played that position last year.


Don't see it. Freese played most at 3b with Harrison there too. And a few games from the same depth guys as last year. You are basing your opinion on an unproven guy in Moran. My hope is that Moran does breakout and prove that he can play 3B defensively well and also smash a ton of HR as a corner IF should do. Until he shows me that I say the team is at best no better and perhaps a bit worse at 3B this year.