7B5A527B50583F0 wrote: Watching Musgrove tonight makes it hard to feel bad about the Cole trade.
Yeah. Personally, I like Musgrove in a Pirate’s uniform better than I liked Cole. I’m not saying Joe is better than Cole, just a better Pirate.
Musgrove is a fierce competitor. I'm not saying Cole wasn't a competitor. Gerritt couldn't get over the hump when things went south in a game. He couldn't just forget a bad pitch ... it lingered.
This why I won't be surprised if he implodes in the playoffs. Not rooting for it, but it won't surprise me.
Nothing is impossible in the playoffs. Bob Friend in 1960. Barry Bonds in the early 90's. But that is one possibility that I would be very happy to be possible.
In Friend's defense he had given up 2 ER and already had 6 Ks when lifted for a PHer trailing 3-1 in the bottom of the 4th in Game 2 of 1960 WS. In the proceeding 5 innings the BP gave up 13 runs. He did pitch poorly in game 6 and couldn't hold the lead in 1 inning of relief in game 7. But he wasn't pitching poorly in game 2 and Murtaugh probably regretted lifting him so early for a PHer in a 3-1 game when Friend had whiffed 6 Yankees in 4 innings including Mantle, Skowron (twice) and Howard (twice). To this day Friend is still bothered by being pulled in that game.
Murtaugh's decision to PH for Friend was further compounded by the injury to Bob Skinner, which resulted in Gino Cimoli in LF and Rocky Nelson starting at 1B (for another LH bat). Had Skinner provided the LH bat in LF, Stuart would have been at 1B and either Cimoli or Nelson would have PH with runners at 2nd and 3rd and 1 out. But Murtaugh didn't want to use up his power threat off the bench (Dick Stuart) or his #2 catcher (Hal Smith) so early. Dick Schofield was needed in reserve in case Groat's recently healed broken wrist gave him trouble. With Skinner out, Joe Christopher was the only extra outfielder. That left slim pickings with Gene Baker or Bob Oldis. Both were with the team all season and were not hitting threats. Baker had just 9 singles in 40 ABs and Oldis had 3 singles and a double in 20 ABs. They combined for 5 RBIs. Murtaugh decided to pull Friend for Baker, who popped out. A Hurdlesque move to be sure. The Bucs didn't score any more that inning and the BP then turned a close 3-1 game into a 16-3 rout, which unfortunately Friend gets associated with.
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DemDog
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715C51404756410102330 wrote: Watching Musgrove tonight makes it hard to feel bad about the Cole trade.
Yeah. Personally, I like Musgrove in a Pirate’s uniform better than I liked Cole. I’m not saying Joe is better than Cole, just a better Pirate.
Musgrove is a fierce competitor. I'm not saying Cole wasn't a competitor. Gerritt couldn't get over the hump when things went south in a game. He couldn't just forget a bad pitch ... it lingered.
This why I won't be surprised if he implodes in the playoffs. Not rooting for it, but it won't surprise me.
Nothing is impossible in the playoffs. Bob Friend in 1960. Barry Bonds in the early 90's. But that is one possibility that I would be very happy to be possible.
In Friend's defense he had given up 2 ER and already had 6 Ks when lifted for a PHer trailing 3-1 in the bottom of the 4th in Game 2 of 1960 WS. In the proceeding 5 innings the BP gave up 13 runs. He did pitch poorly in game 6 and couldn't hold the lead in 1 inning of relief in game 7. But he wasn't pitching poorly in game 2 and Murtaugh probably regretted lifting him so early for a PHer in a 3-1 game when Friend had whiffed 6 Yankees in 4 innings including Mantle, Skowron (twice) and Howard (twice). To this day Friend is still bothered by being pulled in that game.
Murtaugh's decision to PH for Friend was further compounded by the injury to Bob Skinner, which resulted in Gino Cimoli in LF and Rocky Nelson starting at 1B (for another LH bat). Had Skinner provided the LH bat in LF, Stuart would have been at 1B and either Cimoli or Nelson would have PH with runners at 2nd and 3rd and 1 out. But Murtaugh didn't want to use up his power threat off the bench (Dick Stuart) or his #2 catcher (Hal Smith) so early. Dick Schofield was needed in reserve in case Groat's recently healed broken wrist gave him trouble. With Skinner out, Joe Christopher was the only extra outfielder. That left slim pickings with Gene Baker or Bob Oldis. Both were with the team all season and were not hitting threats. Baker had just 9 singles in 40 ABs and Oldis had 3 singles and a double in 20 ABs. They combined for 5 RBIs. Murtaugh decided to pull Friend for Baker, who popped out. A Hurdlesque move to be sure. The Bucs didn't score any more that inning and the BP then turned a close 3-1 game into a 16-3 rout, which unfortunately Friend gets associated with.
Did not intend to belittle Friend. Guy was a work horse for the Bucs and game them a hell of a lot of great games over his career. An All-Time and Pirate great and a pretty good drinker. He could consume the booze. I know from personal experience meeting him at a Season Tix holder event when Malcolm Prine was around and Andy Van Slyke was the star of the team. Friend sat by a window at 3Rivers and held court. All I'm saying is he did not pitch the way he was expected to do in the Series. As for Murtaugh all I can say is the strings he pulled in 60 broke a 33 yr old WS drought for the Bucs. Oh, hell you if anyone on OBN would know that! Great book by the way. Need to send it to you for autographing so I can make it a family keepsake for Pirate Fan daughter.
Yeah. Personally, I like Musgrove in a Pirate’s uniform better than I liked Cole. I’m not saying Joe is better than Cole, just a better Pirate.
Musgrove is a fierce competitor. I'm not saying Cole wasn't a competitor. Gerritt couldn't get over the hump when things went south in a game. He couldn't just forget a bad pitch ... it lingered.
This why I won't be surprised if he implodes in the playoffs. Not rooting for it, but it won't surprise me.
Nothing is impossible in the playoffs. Bob Friend in 1960. Barry Bonds in the early 90's. But that is one possibility that I would be very happy to be possible.
In Friend's defense he had given up 2 ER and already had 6 Ks when lifted for a PHer trailing 3-1 in the bottom of the 4th in Game 2 of 1960 WS. In the proceeding 5 innings the BP gave up 13 runs. He did pitch poorly in game 6 and couldn't hold the lead in 1 inning of relief in game 7. But he wasn't pitching poorly in game 2 and Murtaugh probably regretted lifting him so early for a PHer in a 3-1 game when Friend had whiffed 6 Yankees in 4 innings including Mantle, Skowron (twice) and Howard (twice). To this day Friend is still bothered by being pulled in that game.
Murtaugh's decision to PH for Friend was further compounded by the injury to Bob Skinner, which resulted in Gino Cimoli in LF and Rocky Nelson starting at 1B (for another LH bat). Had Skinner provided the LH bat in LF, Stuart would have been at 1B and either Cimoli or Nelson would have PH with runners at 2nd and 3rd and 1 out. But Murtaugh didn't want to use up his power threat off the bench (Dick Stuart) or his #2 catcher (Hal Smith) so early. Dick Schofield was needed in reserve in case Groat's recently healed broken wrist gave him trouble. With Skinner out, Joe Christopher was the only extra outfielder. That left slim pickings with Gene Baker or Bob Oldis. Both were with the team all season and were not hitting threats. Baker had just 9 singles in 40 ABs and Oldis had 3 singles and a double in 20 ABs. They combined for 5 RBIs. Murtaugh decided to pull Friend for Baker, who popped out. A Hurdlesque move to be sure. The Bucs didn't score any more that inning and the BP then turned a close 3-1 game into a 16-3 rout, which unfortunately Friend gets associated with.
Did not intend to belittle Friend. Guy was a work horse for the Bucs and game them a hell of a lot of great games over his career. An All-Time and Pirate great and a pretty good drinker. He could consume the booze. I know from personal experience meeting him at a Season Tix holder event when Malcolm Prine was around and Andy Van Slyke was the star of the team. Friend sat by a window at 3Rivers and held court. All I'm saying is he did not pitch the way he was expected to do in the Series. As for Murtaugh all I can say is the strings he pulled in 60 broke a 33 yr old WS drought for the Bucs. Oh, hell you if anyone on OBN would know that! Great book by the way. Need to send it to you for autographing so I can make it a family keepsake for Pirate Fan daughter.
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Bobster21
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I didn't think you were belittling him. But that's the rep he got for that WS and it's deserved for game 6 and his brief appearance in game 7. I just wanted to point out that Friend actually was fairly effective during his innings in game 2 despite a final score of 16-3. And yes he does enjoy a drink (which we all did when hanging out at fantasy camp). 
Super nice guy. It's a shame Friend's career W-L record is sub .500 because he played on terrible teams in the 50s but was the ERA champ in '55 and a 22 game winner in '58. He was one of the premier NL pitchers. In fact, it's incredible that he and Law had nearly identical stats in 1960 and Law won the CY. Imagine having not 1 but 2 pitchers who have CY worthy stats! I attended several fantasy camps featuring the 1960 team. Those guys are the best! Friend, Law, Face, Maz, Groat, Skinner, Smith, Virdon, Cimoli, Oldis, Schofield, Gibbon were all there. There's still so much camaraderie between them and they truly appreciate that fans still want to meet them.
Super nice guy. It's a shame Friend's career W-L record is sub .500 because he played on terrible teams in the 50s but was the ERA champ in '55 and a 22 game winner in '58. He was one of the premier NL pitchers. In fact, it's incredible that he and Law had nearly identical stats in 1960 and Law won the CY. Imagine having not 1 but 2 pitchers who have CY worthy stats! I attended several fantasy camps featuring the 1960 team. Those guys are the best! Friend, Law, Face, Maz, Groat, Skinner, Smith, Virdon, Cimoli, Oldis, Schofield, Gibbon were all there. There's still so much camaraderie between them and they truly appreciate that fans still want to meet them.-
DemDog
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624F42535445521211200 wrote: I didn't think you were belittling him. But that's the rep he got for that WS and it's deserved for game 6 and his brief appearance in game 7. I just wanted to point out that Friend actually was fairly effective during his innings in game 2 despite a final score of 16-3. And yes he does enjoy a drink (which we all did when hanging out at fantasy camp). Super nice guy. It's a shame Friend's career W-L record is sub .500 because he played on terrible teams in the 50s but was the ERA champ in '55 and a 22 game winner in '58. He was one of the premier NL pitchers. In fact, it's incredible that he and Law had nearly identical stats in 1960 and Law won the CY. Imagine having not 1 but 2 pitchers who have CY worthy stats! I attended several fantasy camps featuring the 1960 team. Those guys are the best! Friend, Law, Face, Maz, Groat, Skinner, Smith, Virdon, Cimoli, Oldis, Schofield, Gibbon were all there. There's still so much camaraderie between them and they truly appreciate that fans still want to meet them.
Friend was so beloved in Pgh as that he won election as Allegheny Co. Controller as a Republican in a strong Democratic city and County.
Super nice guy. It's a shame Friend's career W-L record is sub .500 because he played on terrible teams in the 50s but was the ERA champ in '55 and a 22 game winner in '58. He was one of the premier NL pitchers. In fact, it's incredible that he and Law had nearly identical stats in 1960 and Law won the CY. Imagine having not 1 but 2 pitchers who have CY worthy stats! I attended several fantasy camps featuring the 1960 team. Those guys are the best! Friend, Law, Face, Maz, Groat, Skinner, Smith, Virdon, Cimoli, Oldis, Schofield, Gibbon were all there. There's still so much camaraderie between them and they truly appreciate that fans still want to meet them. Friend was so beloved in Pgh as that he won election as Allegheny Co. Controller as a Republican in a strong Democratic city and County.
If ...
49454C41560A504D494B504C5D1614644349240 wrote: Back to the original topic. The TB version of Glasnow got destroyed tonight. Maybe his worst major league start ever.
2/3 inning, 7 runs.
Yea... I was going to post this. There are still people on this board who think Glasnow is going to be a Cy Young candidate. He is closer to Anthony than Cy.
2/3 inning, 7 runs.
Yea... I was going to post this. There are still people on this board who think Glasnow is going to be a Cy Young candidate. He is closer to Anthony than Cy.