Buccos @ Braves - 6/10 - Game Thread
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pghpaulatl
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Buccos @ Braves - 6/10 - Game Thread
Re: Buccos @ Braves - 6/10 - Game Thread
Reply #18 - Today at 12:01am
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Carolina Bucco wrote yesterday at 10:20pm:
The fact that they were willing to go into this season with a grand total of FOUR legitimate MLB caliber starting pitchers is beyond INEXCUSABLE. Because you know there are going to be injuries, and you know there is going to be under-performance.
I get the frustration, but this just isn't true. Across all of baseball, the Pirates were considered to have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball. All 5 guys. Their 6 and 7 starters were neatly in their bullpen in Kingham and Brault. If they needed to go deeper before June, Holmes was the answer. Keller (if he pitched well could be the option after that. No 2019 MLB team could handle these sorts of pitching losses either (other than maybe the Dodgers). And this isn't even mentioning the bullpen injuries.
The Pirates issues are a series of trickle down problems. The injuries to the top 5 have pushed Kingham and Brault into the rotation. Kingham, for whatever reason, wasn't even passable. No one was expecting Kershaw, but I don't think anyone expected this out of Kingham. Then they tried going to "opener" approach. The problem is that they lost key bullpen guys (Kela, Crick, Burdi) to injury and Kingham and Brault to the rotation. All that was left to try and pull off the "opener" thing was people they planned on staying in the minors or doing some mop up innings.
At this point, I feel bad for everyone in the bullpen. They are so over taxed and it's only early June. Every guy has had to pitch extra innings already. Many of them have had to be scapegoated on the mound as McRae has the last two times he's pitched. I think these pitchers need to do better, but it is certainly understandable considering what has happened.
So, some suggest this is all NH, fault. I think it is far fetched that any GM would be able to adequately prepare for the Pirates historic injury issues this year. What was he supposed to do before the season? Who was going to sign to sit in the minors and wait for injuries? Who was going to be a middle relief pitcher waiting for someone to get hurt so they could start? Now that the injuries have happened, who should he be acquiring? He got Stratton (at least a warm body) who promptly got hurt. What is he supposed to do right now?
I couldn't agree more PMike, almost any other team losing their number one and two starters, Kela, set up man and others in BP as well as starters couldn't overcome it.
Chalk this up to a lost year and do as much as you can to prepare for 2020.
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Bobster21
Buccos @ Braves - 6/10 - Game Thread
Well, the bullpen limited the Braves to 13 runs. That's a start. 
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Bobster21
Buccos @ Braves - 6/10 - Game Thread
I wonder who goes on the 10 day IL today so they can restock the BP. I'm guessing W. B. (Warm Body) Neverauskas gets recalled.
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CarolinaBucco
Buccos @ Braves - 6/10 - Game Thread
I'm standing by my statement.
The Pirates were perfectly willing to enter this season with only 4 actual, legitimate major league starting pitchers:
Taillon
Archer
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles was somewhere between bad and mediocre.
Brault and Kingham are below average ... AT BEST.
And that's it.
The front office was happy with THAT collection of starting pitchers, even though everyone knows there are going to be injuries, and at least one of the pitchers is very likely to under-perform.
So they happily and willingly went into the season with ZERO and I mean ZERO room for error, given that they entered with no depth whatsoever.
Granted the injuries have been piling up, but still ... this organization was not IN ANY WAY prepared to deal with injuries because they had completely ignored depth and ignored the numbers.
Just as one example of many, they could have EASILY signed Gio Gonzalez. Now he ain't great, but he is a MUCH better option than Brault and Kingham and it's not even close.
The Pirates were perfectly willing to enter this season with only 4 actual, legitimate major league starting pitchers:
Taillon
Archer
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles was somewhere between bad and mediocre.
Brault and Kingham are below average ... AT BEST.
And that's it.
The front office was happy with THAT collection of starting pitchers, even though everyone knows there are going to be injuries, and at least one of the pitchers is very likely to under-perform.
So they happily and willingly went into the season with ZERO and I mean ZERO room for error, given that they entered with no depth whatsoever.
Granted the injuries have been piling up, but still ... this organization was not IN ANY WAY prepared to deal with injuries because they had completely ignored depth and ignored the numbers.
Just as one example of many, they could have EASILY signed Gio Gonzalez. Now he ain't great, but he is a MUCH better option than Brault and Kingham and it's not even close.
Buccos @ Braves - 6/10 - Game Thread
1133203D3E3B3C33102731313D520 wrote: I'm standing by my statement.
The Pirates were perfectly willing to enter this season with only 4 actual, legitimate major league starting pitchers:
Taillon
Archer
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles was somewhere between bad and mediocre.
Brault and Kingham are below average ... AT BEST.
And that's it.
The front office was happy with THAT collection of starting pitchers, even though everyone knows there are going to be injuries, and at least one of the pitchers is very likely to under-perform.
So they happily and willingly went into the season with ZERO and I mean ZERO room for error, given that they entered with no depth whatsoever.
Granted the injuries have been piling up, but still ... this organization was not IN ANY WAY prepared to deal with injuries because they had completely ignored depth and ignored the numbers.
Just as one example of many, they could have EASILY signed Gio Gonzalez. Now he ain't great, but he is a MUCH better option than Brault and Kingham and it's not even close.
PMike made a good post but I will fall on the side of thinking that Carolina Bucco is correct.
Lyles was really an unknown and actually still is, who knows how many innings he can pitch?
Musgrove has never pitched more than 115 innings in any major league season.
Archer wasn't great last year
Taillon pitched 191 innings last year, his previous best was 131.
The team had seen Kingham and Brault all last season and in spring training and still were counting on them despite poor performance. We already knew Kuhl and Santana were gone for this year.
Kela was shut down early last year and Burdi didn't pitch last year so there had to be big question marks.
The Pirates potentially had a good pitching staff this season if a lot of things went well but it should have been clear very early that it was living on the edge.
Bad depth isn't good. Its doubtful any team could over come all the injuries the Bucs have had. However, the Bucs were built to be a good team if there weren't any injuries. Luckily the Bucs have beaten the Reds 7 out of ten or we would be in last place.
The Pirates were perfectly willing to enter this season with only 4 actual, legitimate major league starting pitchers:
Taillon
Archer
Williams
Musgrove
Lyles was somewhere between bad and mediocre.
Brault and Kingham are below average ... AT BEST.
And that's it.
The front office was happy with THAT collection of starting pitchers, even though everyone knows there are going to be injuries, and at least one of the pitchers is very likely to under-perform.
So they happily and willingly went into the season with ZERO and I mean ZERO room for error, given that they entered with no depth whatsoever.
Granted the injuries have been piling up, but still ... this organization was not IN ANY WAY prepared to deal with injuries because they had completely ignored depth and ignored the numbers.
Just as one example of many, they could have EASILY signed Gio Gonzalez. Now he ain't great, but he is a MUCH better option than Brault and Kingham and it's not even close.
PMike made a good post but I will fall on the side of thinking that Carolina Bucco is correct.
Lyles was really an unknown and actually still is, who knows how many innings he can pitch?
Musgrove has never pitched more than 115 innings in any major league season.
Archer wasn't great last year
Taillon pitched 191 innings last year, his previous best was 131.
The team had seen Kingham and Brault all last season and in spring training and still were counting on them despite poor performance. We already knew Kuhl and Santana were gone for this year.
Kela was shut down early last year and Burdi didn't pitch last year so there had to be big question marks.
The Pirates potentially had a good pitching staff this season if a lot of things went well but it should have been clear very early that it was living on the edge.
Bad depth isn't good. Its doubtful any team could over come all the injuries the Bucs have had. However, the Bucs were built to be a good team if there weren't any injuries. Luckily the Bucs have beaten the Reds 7 out of ten or we would be in last place.
Buccos @ Braves - 6/10 - Game Thread
In many of my recent posts I have been critical of the current lousy state of the Pirates. At present, the team may have a chance of winning if the starter can go a good 6 innings and the team can use the only decent relievers in the pen to try (emphasis on try) and hold a lead for the last 3 innings.
In looking at the current situation, I also will acknowledge that no team or GM could have fully prepared for the loss of all of your starters at one time or another during the first 65 games or so of the season, including the extended losses of Tallion and Williams. That said, what really torks me is that the loss of all of the above starters has generally been met with a bailing wire and duct tape approach --- who can we toss out there to try and get a few innings out of them even though there is a good likelihood that they will be torched (I also should apologize to the makers of duct tape because that is too high of a bar for what Nutting apparently finds acceptable.)
The Pirates have reacted to the loss of their starters with no sense of urgency. Kingham and Brault were the first reinforcements. Brault is now showing a few signs of potential after having been briefly sent to AAA earlier in the season and Kingham will soon likely be someone else's reclamation project. Who else did we get --- Rookie Davis, Montana, Feliz and (I forget the 4th) have all been used as openers; with the only apparent reason being that Kingham and Brault both were getting hit hard.
The major league team needs help if they are to compete. The only potential healthy starter at AAA appears to be Keller, and there is no one at AA who can help. In short, you have few if any internal options. To date, the only external option that was brought in was Straton. Teams that truly expect and want to compete recognize that when you have little to nothing available, you need to go get it. It does not appear that Nutting is willing to do so, unless of course NH can offload Dickerson's remaining salary so he can go get a replacement pitcher who likely will cost only a mil or two.
Because as we all know, the mantra is making money for Nutting, not competing on the field.
In looking at the current situation, I also will acknowledge that no team or GM could have fully prepared for the loss of all of your starters at one time or another during the first 65 games or so of the season, including the extended losses of Tallion and Williams. That said, what really torks me is that the loss of all of the above starters has generally been met with a bailing wire and duct tape approach --- who can we toss out there to try and get a few innings out of them even though there is a good likelihood that they will be torched (I also should apologize to the makers of duct tape because that is too high of a bar for what Nutting apparently finds acceptable.)
The Pirates have reacted to the loss of their starters with no sense of urgency. Kingham and Brault were the first reinforcements. Brault is now showing a few signs of potential after having been briefly sent to AAA earlier in the season and Kingham will soon likely be someone else's reclamation project. Who else did we get --- Rookie Davis, Montana, Feliz and (I forget the 4th) have all been used as openers; with the only apparent reason being that Kingham and Brault both were getting hit hard.
The major league team needs help if they are to compete. The only potential healthy starter at AAA appears to be Keller, and there is no one at AA who can help. In short, you have few if any internal options. To date, the only external option that was brought in was Straton. Teams that truly expect and want to compete recognize that when you have little to nothing available, you need to go get it. It does not appear that Nutting is willing to do so, unless of course NH can offload Dickerson's remaining salary so he can go get a replacement pitcher who likely will cost only a mil or two.
Because as we all know, the mantra is making money for Nutting, not competing on the field.
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Bobster21
Buccos @ Braves - 6/10 - Game Thread
I'm reading that Keller will start Wednesday and Musgrove on Thursday.