Dickerson to Phils

[dmetz]

what difference does it really make guys?   The best news today was that Nightmare wasn't traded.



That means there's still an outside chance NH can be canned this offseason, and someone else can take a shot at trading from a position of value.    Because he sure as h3ll can't do it successfully.   



It's over.  For a while.  at least 2 years. But if everyone shows up and stays healthy next year and we get production from the young guys and the pitching staff rebounds, and Bell doesn't regress (as he's doing now), and Newman and Reynolds can keep hitting over .300... we've got a chance at .500 ish ball by the deadline.



Which means we're "competing". That's all we can really ask for, right? a "competitive" team? Being in a position to add at the deadline = winner.

[rucker59@gmail.com]

042924353223347477460 wrote: Although it was virtually certain Dickerson would be dumped for whatever they could get for him, I find the "trade" troubling. Dickerson was exactly the type of player the Pirates need but seldom have: a fundamentally sound, "professional hitter" with power who played the game correctly. He arrived with a reputation as a weak fielder (and had some problems recently) yet won a Gold Glove last year. He's had HR seasons of 24, 24 and 27 and this is his 4th season hitting .300+. He's a career .285 hitter. (By comparison, Marte is a career .286 hitter with less power). A few weeks ago I read that, incredibly, TBMTIB had no interest in retaining Dickerson. So they dealt him for a bag of baseballs. Now I'm reading how excited NH is that dumping Dickerson improves the Pirates by allowing more opportunities for players like Pablo Reyes, Jason Martin and Jose Osuna. Translation: anyone who costs less is preferable. Good for Dickerson. He escaped the train wreck that is the Pirates and will now have legitimate chances for postseason play. I'm guessing there are 24 other players today anxiously awaiting their chance too. What a shame that an organization that pretends to be interested in winning has no interest in such a player.


The truth. 



Why not sign Dickerson to a three year deal and then trade Polanco?  There is still value in Polanco (better return) and the team would be MUCH better.  Dickerson, Marte, Reynolds would be a very good OF.



Can’t be money, can it?  Polanco starts to get expensive next year.  I believe $8M or so.  Over $10M starting in 2021. What would Dickerson cost?  $10,000.000?  So $2M is driving this?  Or do the Pirates think Polanco makes a better team?  Surely not.



I think it is money, but the number is $7.5M.  Polanco will be gone sometime in 2020, replaced by a $500K rookie. 

[ArnoldRothstein]

I doubt they could send Polanco anywhere without sending money with him. With the buyouts, $25 million for two years is quite a bit for someone who can't stay in the lineup and takes a long time to get untracked when he comes back. His hot streaks are beautiful, there just aren't enough of them.

[notes34]

42716D6C6F67516C776B7077666A6D030 wrote: I doubt they could send Polanco anywhere without sending money with him.  With the buyouts, $25 million for two years is quite a bit for someone who can't stay in the lineup and takes a long time to get untracked when he comes back.  His hot streaks are beautiful, there just aren't enough of them.
I had really hoped that Dickerson would stay and get signed to a 2-3 year deal and Polanco would get traded, but this is the Pirates. What a shame, Dickerson was gifted to them.

[notes34]

202921303E440 wrote: what difference does it really make guys?   The best news today was that Nightmare wasn't traded.



That means there's still an outside chance NH can be canned this offseason, and someone else can take a shot at trading from a position of value.    Because he sure as h3ll can't do it successfully.   



It's over.  For a while.  at least 2 years. But if everyone shows up and stays healthy next year and we get production from the young guys and the pitching staff rebounds, and Bell doesn't regress (as he's doing now), and Newman and Reynolds can keep hitting over .300... we've got a chance at .500 ish ball by the deadline.



Which means we're "competing".   That's all we can really ask for, right?  a "competitive" team?   Being in a position to add at the deadline = winner.
Yep a dominant closer is essential when your in last place! >:(

[SammyKhalifa]

They should have traded any of the expiring contracts.  I was underwhelmed by the Dickerson return at first--but when I thought about it a bit more, that bonus money is better than it seems.  250k (or whatever it was) is a really good LA prospect, albeit far away from the majors.  But still likely as good as any other "lottery ticket" type return.  OFC, I'm still more bullish on Polanco than most so there's that. 



I'm a little disappointed that a Vasquez deal couldn't get done.  Though of course, not knowing what the potential returns actually were it's hard to say which side of the negotiations dropped the ball.  I will say that if I were LA I think I would have done what ever it took to make the move if that's what I thought they needed.  Remember how upset we were when "NH clings to his prospects" and wouldn't improve the team when he needed to?  Well, the Dodgers are in that boat right now, and have the added advantage of being the Dodgers; so any prospect they move could be more than covered for down the road by throwing money at the issue. 

[rucker59@gmail.com]

68697263753532060 wrote: I doubt they could send Polanco anywhere without sending money with him.  With the buyouts, $25 million for two years is quite a bit for someone who can't stay in the lineup and takes a long time to get untracked when he comes back.  His hot streaks are beautiful, there just aren't enough of them.
I had really hoped that Dickerson would stay and get signed to a 2-3 year deal and Polanco would get traded, but this is the Pirates. What a shame, Dickerson was gifted to them.


Yeah. Wasted opportunity for Pirates. They got Dickerson for nothing and had the chance to fill an OF while flipping someone else. Instead they turn around and flip for nothing.

[Bobster21]

I realize that any return for Dickerson was going to be sparse. Because although he can be a valuable player for any team, he's only being rented for 2 months and then becomes a FA. The best scenario would have been for the Pirates to negotiate an extension before he hit free agency. But weeks ago I read that the Pirates had no intention of keeping him. That report appears to be consistent with the fact that there was never any comment from anyone in the org about trying to keep him and then essentially getting next to nothing for him at the deadline just to get rid of him with the lame explanation that it opens the door for Reyes, Martin or Osuna. Seems to me the return on him is not enough to make it worth their while to move him instead of getting 2 more months from him, during which they might have tried to get him to re-sign. I think Nutting just wanted that 8.5 mil off the books next year as they prepare for arbitration with Bell, Musgrove, Taillon, Wiliams, Frazier, Kuhl, Feliz, Kela and Diaz. (I don't expect them to offer arb to Gonzalez.) Cervelli's 11.5 mil will also be gone. Cabrera, Kang, Liriano and Chisenhall will free up a combined 9 mil. And they won't be paying the 2.7 mil left on Dickerson contract thru the end of this season. These moves will more than compensate for arb increases to others and probably leave enough left over to sign a few more Chris Strattons. Nutting's wallet wins again! 

[BenM]

755855444352450506370 wrote: I think Nutting just wanted that 8.5 mil off the books next year as they prepare for arbitration with Bell, Musgrove, Taillon, Wiliams, Frazier, Kuhl, Feliz, Kela and Diaz. (I don't expect them to offer arb to Gonzalez.) Cervelli's 11.5 mil will also be gone. Cabrera, Kang, Liriano and Chisenhall will free up a combined 9 mil. And they won't be paying the 2.7 mil left on Dickerson contract thru the end of this season. These moves will more than compensate for arb increases to others and probably leave enough left over to sign a few more Chris Strattons. Nutting's wallet wins again! 


I was thinking the same thing. Is it possible the payroll will be even less than this season?



Financial flexibility!

[SammyKhalifa]

*shrug*



Adam Berry

@adamdberry



One thing to add regarding Liriano and Melky: NH went straight to the "veteran presence" answer re: why they weren't traded, presumably out of respect for both veterans/pending FAs, but my understanding is they looked to find landing spots with contenders and couldn't find a fit.