63444F6C210 wrote: It's interesting that our GM feels the need to think status quo relative to our pitching staff without considering an upgrade, but Cervelli is coming off the books, Dickerson is coming off the books or is off, Cabrera is off the books, isn't Liriano off the books? That is a decent amount to use to go after a bonafide starter.
Cervelli 11.5 million
Dickerson 5.7
Chisenhall 2.75
Liriano 1.8
Cabrera 1.15
AND they will have increased revenue from a new TV contract. Bell will probably get a hefty raise in arbitration, but that's a lot of "financial flexibility".
I didn't go through player by player but I believe
Marte, Polanco, Vazquez and Archer are only players that have deals in place.
arbitration eligible:
Keone Kela
Jameson Taillon
Josh Bell
maybe arbitration eligible:
Musgrove
Frazier
trevor Williams
Unless the Bucs trade for some experienced players or sign free agents the payroll is going to be very low and the team is likely to be worse than this season. It is especially going to be bad if NH is planning for next year because he will be wearing rosy glasses and only be shooting for a 80 win team.
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
78464949434A4D4E4343674A5D402F0 wrote: Thanks for the pick-me-up.
Hangin' around
Nutting to do but frown
Huntington and Mondays always get me down
Good one!
Hangin' around
Nutting to do but frown
Huntington and Mondays always get me down
Good one!
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
The more things change, the more they stay the same. This team is a laughing stock. An utter embarrassment to the game of baseball. At least other bottom feeders seem to have some semblance of a plan. I don't know what in the hell you call whatever it is the Pirates are doing. To top it off, they've just lost their #1 starter for basically two years (beginning in May of this year, plus all of next year). And the status quo is a-ok. No talent on the MLB team, no talent in the minors. I have to wonder if things are as bleak now as they were when NH took over. IDK, but it's close. At least the team NH inherited had McCutchen, Marte, and Walker in the system.
They need to blow the entire thing up, and start from scratch. Trade anyone and everyone. Bell, Newman, Reynolds, Marte, Vazquez...anyone and everyone who can bring real prospects back. I don't care if they're in the DSL. This team has no future to look forward to. Not now, not next year, not five years from now. I hate, absolutely hate, calling for someone to be fired. I especially hate calling for NH and Hurdle to be canned, because they will always be the ones who made baseball in Pittsburgh relevant again, and who produced four winnings teams. Both seem like great guys, and I think they are good baseball men. But, the wheels have come off, and there isn't a mechanic in the world who can rebuild this train. Time to fire the engineers, and start completely over from scratch like you're running an expansion team.
Nutting should be ashamed and embarrassed. At some point, MLB should step in for the good of the game.
They need to blow the entire thing up, and start from scratch. Trade anyone and everyone. Bell, Newman, Reynolds, Marte, Vazquez...anyone and everyone who can bring real prospects back. I don't care if they're in the DSL. This team has no future to look forward to. Not now, not next year, not five years from now. I hate, absolutely hate, calling for someone to be fired. I especially hate calling for NH and Hurdle to be canned, because they will always be the ones who made baseball in Pittsburgh relevant again, and who produced four winnings teams. Both seem like great guys, and I think they are good baseball men. But, the wheels have come off, and there isn't a mechanic in the world who can rebuild this train. Time to fire the engineers, and start completely over from scratch like you're running an expansion team.
Nutting should be ashamed and embarrassed. At some point, MLB should step in for the good of the game.
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rucker59@gmail.com
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
6F67645345604748260 wrote: The more things change, the more they stay the same. This team is a laughing stock. An utter embarrassment to the game of baseball. At least other bottom feeders seem to have some semblance of a plan. I don't know what in the hell you call whatever it is the Pirates are doing. To top it off, they've just lost their #1 starter for basically two years (beginning in May of this year, plus all of next year). And the status quo is a-ok. No talent on the MLB team, no talent in the minors. I have to wonder if things are as bleak now as they were when NH took over. IDK, but it's close. At least the team NH inherited had McCutchen, Marte, and Walker in the system.
They need to blow the entire thing up, and start from scratch. Trade anyone and everyone. Bell, Newman, Reynolds, Marte, Vazquez...anyone and everyone who can bring real prospects back. I don't care if they're in the DSL. This team has no future to look forward to. Not now, not next year, not five years from now. I hate, absolutely hate, calling for someone to be fired. I especially hate calling for NH and Hurdle to be canned, because they will always be the ones who made baseball in Pittsburgh relevant again, and who produced four winnings teams. Both seem like great guys, and I think they are good baseball men. But, the wheels have come off, and there isn't a mechanic in the world who can rebuild this train. Time to fire the engineers, and start completely over from scratch like you're running an expansion team.
Nutting should be ashamed and embarrassed. At some point, MLB should step in for the good of the game.
Yes to this entire post. This has been my position since mid season. But it’s more than just a suddenly bad baseball team. The current team is the culmination of Nutting’s ownership, an ownership that is not willing to compete with the rest of the owners. The integrity of the game is being destroyed by Nutting and MLB and the players union have to step in. And soon.
Failure to do so can harm the game beyond Pittsburgh Pirate fans, although destroying an entire fan base of any team is a significant matter. Somewhere along the line there will be another owner that decides to duplicate Nutting. Then another. Real owners will not allow a few greedy men to destroy the game as we know it.
I’m hoping for a $110M floor and a $200m ceiling on payroll with next CBA. Call it the Nutting Floor.
They need to blow the entire thing up, and start from scratch. Trade anyone and everyone. Bell, Newman, Reynolds, Marte, Vazquez...anyone and everyone who can bring real prospects back. I don't care if they're in the DSL. This team has no future to look forward to. Not now, not next year, not five years from now. I hate, absolutely hate, calling for someone to be fired. I especially hate calling for NH and Hurdle to be canned, because they will always be the ones who made baseball in Pittsburgh relevant again, and who produced four winnings teams. Both seem like great guys, and I think they are good baseball men. But, the wheels have come off, and there isn't a mechanic in the world who can rebuild this train. Time to fire the engineers, and start completely over from scratch like you're running an expansion team.
Nutting should be ashamed and embarrassed. At some point, MLB should step in for the good of the game.
Yes to this entire post. This has been my position since mid season. But it’s more than just a suddenly bad baseball team. The current team is the culmination of Nutting’s ownership, an ownership that is not willing to compete with the rest of the owners. The integrity of the game is being destroyed by Nutting and MLB and the players union have to step in. And soon.
Failure to do so can harm the game beyond Pittsburgh Pirate fans, although destroying an entire fan base of any team is a significant matter. Somewhere along the line there will be another owner that decides to duplicate Nutting. Then another. Real owners will not allow a few greedy men to destroy the game as we know it.
I’m hoping for a $110M floor and a $200m ceiling on payroll with next CBA. Call it the Nutting Floor.
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
That would be awesome. I'd welcome a salary cap/floor. Perhaps it would force owners like Nutting out.
Like you, I haven't paid attention to the team since the Cubs sweep coming out of the AS break. I've watched part of one game, a Brewers game because I happened to be visiting my grandparents in Wisconsin, and my grandpa watches every Brewers game. Besides that, I have gotten zero use out of the MLB.tv package I paid for. I couldn't even tell you if the Pirates play tonight or not, let alone who they play. Couldn't care less. I'm as diehard as they come, and Nutting has essentially made me a non-fan. But everything's ok...according to Dan Potash, people aren't coming out to the ballpark because it's "hot and sticky" outside. The Pirates have become the Washington Generals of MLB. The only difference is that the Generals games with the Globetrotters were rigged and everyone knew they were rigged. The Pirates are still trying to hoodwink fans into thinking they A) care, B) are trying, and C) have a chance. Here's a hint...none of those three things are true.
Like you, I haven't paid attention to the team since the Cubs sweep coming out of the AS break. I've watched part of one game, a Brewers game because I happened to be visiting my grandparents in Wisconsin, and my grandpa watches every Brewers game. Besides that, I have gotten zero use out of the MLB.tv package I paid for. I couldn't even tell you if the Pirates play tonight or not, let alone who they play. Couldn't care less. I'm as diehard as they come, and Nutting has essentially made me a non-fan. But everything's ok...according to Dan Potash, people aren't coming out to the ballpark because it's "hot and sticky" outside. The Pirates have become the Washington Generals of MLB. The only difference is that the Generals games with the Globetrotters were rigged and everyone knew they were rigged. The Pirates are still trying to hoodwink fans into thinking they A) care, B) are trying, and C) have a chance. Here's a hint...none of those three things are true.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
5C5B4D454B5C1B176E49434F4742004D41432E0 wrote: The more things change, the more they stay the same. This team is a laughing stock. An utter embarrassment to the game of baseball. At least other bottom feeders seem to have some semblance of a plan. I don't know what in the hell you call whatever it is the Pirates are doing. To top it off, they've just lost their #1 starter for basically two years (beginning in May of this year, plus all of next year). And the status quo is a-ok. No talent on the MLB team, no talent in the minors. I have to wonder if things are as bleak now as they were when NH took over. IDK, but it's close. At least the team NH inherited had McCutchen, Marte, and Walker in the system.
They need to blow the entire thing up, and start from scratch. Trade anyone and everyone. Bell, Newman, Reynolds, Marte, Vazquez...anyone and everyone who can bring real prospects back. I don't care if they're in the DSL. This team has no future to look forward to. Not now, not next year, not five years from now. I hate, absolutely hate, calling for someone to be fired. I especially hate calling for NH and Hurdle to be canned, because they will always be the ones who made baseball in Pittsburgh relevant again, and who produced four winnings teams. Both seem like great guys, and I think they are good baseball men. But, the wheels have come off, and there isn't a mechanic in the world who can rebuild this train. Time to fire the engineers, and start completely over from scratch like you're running an expansion team.
Nutting should be ashamed and embarrassed. At some point, MLB should step in for the good of the game.
Yes to this entire post. This has been my position since mid season. But it’s more than just a suddenly bad baseball team. The current team is the culmination of Nutting’s ownership, an ownership that is not willing to compete with the rest of the owners. The integrity of the game is being destroyed by Nutting and MLB and the players union have to step in. And soon.
Failure to do so can harm the game beyond Pittsburgh Pirate fans, although destroying an entire fan base of any team is a significant matter. Somewhere along the line there will be another owner that decides to duplicate Nutting. Then another. Real owners will not allow a few greedy men to destroy the game as we know it.
I’m hoping for a $110M floor and a $200m ceiling on payroll with next CBA. Call it the Nutting Floor.
That has been my hope also. That MLB steps in and creates a minimum payroll floor. In honor of our owner it should be called the “Bust a Nut” floor
They need to blow the entire thing up, and start from scratch. Trade anyone and everyone. Bell, Newman, Reynolds, Marte, Vazquez...anyone and everyone who can bring real prospects back. I don't care if they're in the DSL. This team has no future to look forward to. Not now, not next year, not five years from now. I hate, absolutely hate, calling for someone to be fired. I especially hate calling for NH and Hurdle to be canned, because they will always be the ones who made baseball in Pittsburgh relevant again, and who produced four winnings teams. Both seem like great guys, and I think they are good baseball men. But, the wheels have come off, and there isn't a mechanic in the world who can rebuild this train. Time to fire the engineers, and start completely over from scratch like you're running an expansion team.
Nutting should be ashamed and embarrassed. At some point, MLB should step in for the good of the game.
Yes to this entire post. This has been my position since mid season. But it’s more than just a suddenly bad baseball team. The current team is the culmination of Nutting’s ownership, an ownership that is not willing to compete with the rest of the owners. The integrity of the game is being destroyed by Nutting and MLB and the players union have to step in. And soon.
Failure to do so can harm the game beyond Pittsburgh Pirate fans, although destroying an entire fan base of any team is a significant matter. Somewhere along the line there will be another owner that decides to duplicate Nutting. Then another. Real owners will not allow a few greedy men to destroy the game as we know it.
I’m hoping for a $110M floor and a $200m ceiling on payroll with next CBA. Call it the Nutting Floor.
That has been my hope also. That MLB steps in and creates a minimum payroll floor. In honor of our owner it should be called the “Bust a Nut” floor
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Bobster21
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
I don't think there will be any cap. It's tough to create a minimum cap without a maximum cap and the big market teams controlling MLB because of their unlimited spending will never allow that. MLB makes a lot of money off those teams with marketing and national TV revenue and doesn't want to see those teams have to reduce their talent levels. They want the Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox to be teams the country wants to watch because they are so much better than most others. And then other low payroll team will argue that their payrolls fluctuate from year to year depending on their rosters and they don't want to have to inflate someone's salary to an undeserved level just to meet the minimum cap. Nutting is the outlier who will always move productive players to avoid raising their salaries and maintain low payrolls every year but other teams can have a legit reason for an occasional low payroll.
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
I don't think a floor would do much good. Probably come along with an increase in minimum salary and/or starting arbitration and free agency earlier.
If that happens the Pirates could be worse off than they are now. Being able to have a player for seven seasons is where the system benefits the Bucs. They just have not been able to get enough good young players to take advantage of it.
Payroll is relative, if a floor is created the Bucs will spend to the floor and rarely (if ever go over) barring a change in team philosophy.
If that happens the Pirates could be worse off than they are now. Being able to have a player for seven seasons is where the system benefits the Bucs. They just have not been able to get enough good young players to take advantage of it.
Payroll is relative, if a floor is created the Bucs will spend to the floor and rarely (if ever go over) barring a change in team philosophy.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
163031263020530 wrote: I don't think a floor would do much good. Probably come along with an increase in minimum salary and/or starting arbitration and free agency earlier.
If that happens the Pirates could be worse off than they are now. Being able to have a player for seven seasons is where the system benefits the Bucs. They just have not been able to get enough good young players to take advantage of it.
Payroll is relative, if a floor is created the Bucs will spend to the floor and rarely (if ever go over) barring a change in team philosophy.
A floor would absolutely improve the Pirates chances of being competitive. If the average ML payroll is $150M and the floor was established at less say 110-120M you don’t think the Pirates could improve their roster spending an additional 50M on the ML payroll???
If that happens the Pirates could be worse off than they are now. Being able to have a player for seven seasons is where the system benefits the Bucs. They just have not been able to get enough good young players to take advantage of it.
Payroll is relative, if a floor is created the Bucs will spend to the floor and rarely (if ever go over) barring a change in team philosophy.
A floor would absolutely improve the Pirates chances of being competitive. If the average ML payroll is $150M and the floor was established at less say 110-120M you don’t think the Pirates could improve their roster spending an additional 50M on the ML payroll???
NH promises more of the same pitching for 2020
56737070654E737B796E1C0 wrote: I don't think a floor would do much good. Probably come along with an increase in minimum salary and/or starting arbitration and free agency earlier.
If that happens the Pirates could be worse off than they are now. Being able to have a player for seven seasons is where the system benefits the Bucs. They just have not been able to get enough good young players to take advantage of it.
Payroll is relative, if a floor is created the Bucs will spend to the floor and rarely (if ever go over) barring a change in team philosophy.
A floor would absolutely improve the Pirates chances of being competitive. If the average ML payroll is $150M and the floor was established at less say 110-120M you don’t think the Pirates could improve their roster spending an additional 50M on the ML payroll???
No because salaries would rise in general. The other teams spending less than the floor would need to pay more too.
I don't think the Bucs would be replacing somebody like Moran with Anthony Rendon or Jeff Donaldson.
Probably 10 million would go towards just raising minimum salary.
I do think the Bucs could pay that much now and then could improve the team by having more experienced players.
But a floor is not going to be established in a vacuum. If earlier free agency is a result the Bucs will end up losing out.
If that happens the Pirates could be worse off than they are now. Being able to have a player for seven seasons is where the system benefits the Bucs. They just have not been able to get enough good young players to take advantage of it.
Payroll is relative, if a floor is created the Bucs will spend to the floor and rarely (if ever go over) barring a change in team philosophy.
A floor would absolutely improve the Pirates chances of being competitive. If the average ML payroll is $150M and the floor was established at less say 110-120M you don’t think the Pirates could improve their roster spending an additional 50M on the ML payroll???
No because salaries would rise in general. The other teams spending less than the floor would need to pay more too.
I don't think the Bucs would be replacing somebody like Moran with Anthony Rendon or Jeff Donaldson.
Probably 10 million would go towards just raising minimum salary.
I do think the Bucs could pay that much now and then could improve the team by having more experienced players.
But a floor is not going to be established in a vacuum. If earlier free agency is a result the Bucs will end up losing out.