674140574151220 wrote: Blass said he was allowed to address the team in the clubhouse before the game to say goodbye after which Hurdle asked him to excuse them so that he could talk to the players. Hurdle then informed the players that he had been fired. I'm trying to understand why the firing was handled this way (prior to game 162). My guess (the only thing I can come up with) is that NH/Nutting wanted to give Hurdle the opportunity to say goodbye to the players rather than having them begin to disperse after the game before he could address them. Otherwise they would have had to tell him prior to the game that he was to be fired after the game so that he knew to address the team after the game. Which would have required him to manage the game after being told he was being fired. Since he had told reporters a few days ago that he was coming back next year the players would have been very confused if they had left the park after the game only to hear that Hurdle was fired. I can't see any other scenario where this makes sense. As inept as Pirates mgt often seems to be, they don't seem mean spirited despite what now looks like a classless move.
I don't really understand the part about not being able to address the players after the game.
Why not just tell them to stay for a short meeting after the game?
Yes, as I said, he could have done that but that would mean he had been told prior to the game that he was being fired. Maybe they didn't think it was appropriate to have him manage the game after being told he was being fired.
Hurdle fired
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Hurdle fired
7148505F584F7E523D0 wrote: Nutting is still the owner and refuses to pay an average payroll by league standards. until he allows a real payroll no manager that is worth a hill of beans will want to manage this team with there arms tied behind there backs. they will hire some "project" manager and the slide to total crap will continue. feel sorry for the young players will be gone in a couple years. not sure why a player would want to play here? sorry if some don't like this, it's just how I feel. HATE the owner. he is the root of all my pirates misery!
He wasn't the owner for the most of the 20 year loosing streak so don't think you can say it's all on Nutting. There is lots of blame to go around but I believe it's mostly about the baseball operations NH and CH to blame for the most recent disaster.
He wasn't the owner for the most of the 20 year loosing streak so don't think you can say it's all on Nutting. There is lots of blame to go around but I believe it's mostly about the baseball operations NH and CH to blame for the most recent disaster.
Hurdle fired
6A474A5B5C4D5A1A19280 wrote: Blass said he was allowed to address the team in the clubhouse before the game to say goodbye after which Hurdle asked him to excuse them so that he could talk to the players. Hurdle then informed the players that he had been fired. I'm trying to understand why the firing was handled this way (prior to game 162). My guess (the only thing I can come up with) is that NH/Nutting wanted to give Hurdle the opportunity to say goodbye to the players rather than having them begin to disperse after the game before he could address them. Otherwise they would have had to tell him prior to the game that he was to be fired after the game so that he knew to address the team after the game. Which would have required him to manage the game after being told he was being fired. Since he had told reporters a few days ago that he was coming back next year the players would have been very confused if they had left the park after the game only to hear that Hurdle was fired. I can't see any other scenario where this makes sense. As inept as Pirates mgt often seems to be, they don't seem mean spirited despite what now looks like a classless move.
I don't really understand the part about not being able to address the players after the game.
Why not just tell them to stay for a short meeting after the game?
Yes, as I said, he could have done that but that would mean he had been told prior to the game that he was being fired. Maybe they didn't think it was appropriate to have him manage the game after being told he was being fired.
yes, but then why did the Pirates tell him before the game? Maybe there is no way to do this in a good way.
Possibly it would have been better to just tell Clint earlier that there is a chance that you aren't coming back (after Clint said he was) and then fire him Monday. Then if he was concerned about saying something to the players he could have done it.
I don't really understand the part about not being able to address the players after the game.
Why not just tell them to stay for a short meeting after the game?
Yes, as I said, he could have done that but that would mean he had been told prior to the game that he was being fired. Maybe they didn't think it was appropriate to have him manage the game after being told he was being fired.
yes, but then why did the Pirates tell him before the game? Maybe there is no way to do this in a good way.
Possibly it would have been better to just tell Clint earlier that there is a chance that you aren't coming back (after Clint said he was) and then fire him Monday. Then if he was concerned about saying something to the players he could have done it.
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Bobster21
Hurdle fired
The Post-Gazette is reporting that Hurdle was given the option of managing today's game after being informed of his firing. He declined.
Hurdle fired
1E333E2F28392E6E6D5C0 wrote: The Post-Gazette is reporting that Hurdle was given the option of managing today's game after being informed of his firing. He declined.
interesting. Did he talk to players before game and then leave?
I wonder if NH told him.
interesting. Did he talk to players before game and then leave?
I wonder if NH told him.
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Bobster21
Hurdle fired
466061766070030 wrote: The Post-Gazette is reporting that Hurdle was given the option of managing today's game after being informed of his firing. He declined.
interesting. Did he talk to players before game and then leave?
I wonder if NH told him.
Apparently so. Blass said he spoke to the team in the clubhouse before he heard Hurdle was fired. After he spoke, Hurdle said he was going to speak to the team after Blass left. That was when Hurdle told the team he had been fired and left before the game.
interesting. Did he talk to players before game and then leave?
I wonder if NH told him.
Apparently so. Blass said he spoke to the team in the clubhouse before he heard Hurdle was fired. After he spoke, Hurdle said he was going to speak to the team after Blass left. That was when Hurdle told the team he had been fired and left before the game.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
Hurdle fired
4079616E697E4F630C0 wrote: Nutting is still the owner and refuses to pay an average payroll by league standards. until he allows a real payroll no manager that is worth a hill of beans will want to manage this team with there arms tied behind there backs. they will hire some "project" manager and the slide to total crap will continue. feel sorry for the young players will be gone in a couple years. not sure why a player would want to play here? sorry if some don't like this, it's just how I feel. HATE the owner. he is the root of all my pirates misery!
You are spot on with your comments!
I liked Hurdle. He was one of our few Managers with a winning record. Nothing changes here especially with NH around.
Nutting has brought this franchise to ground zero.
It is unwatchable, classless, and a joke.
No Manager worth his salt would come here. No players want to sign here unless they have no other options.
Way to put a damper on Steve Blass weekend. You couldn’t wait till after the World Series???
I don’t want to hear the BS and lip service anymore!
I’m done flying back to the Burgh every year to support this team.
Unless there is a salary floor or Nutting decides to spend to a ML average payroll, I will spend my time watching a team that tries to win...The Penguins
You are spot on with your comments!
I liked Hurdle. He was one of our few Managers with a winning record. Nothing changes here especially with NH around.
Nutting has brought this franchise to ground zero.
It is unwatchable, classless, and a joke.
No Manager worth his salt would come here. No players want to sign here unless they have no other options.
Way to put a damper on Steve Blass weekend. You couldn’t wait till after the World Series???
I don’t want to hear the BS and lip service anymore!
I’m done flying back to the Burgh every year to support this team.
Unless there is a salary floor or Nutting decides to spend to a ML average payroll, I will spend my time watching a team that tries to win...The Penguins
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
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Bobster21
Hurdle fired
45606363765D60686A7D0F0 wrote: http://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/ ... s-that-it/
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Excellent article! I have long believed Hurdle needed to go. Being a nice guy doesn't win games. But the problems are far greater than him and start at the top. No manager will succeed when the owner can't wait to rid himself of every contract before it reaches market level value or with a GM who consistently misevaluates who they draft, who they trade away and who they acquire. The manager can only try to get the most out of the roster he's handed. I think Hurdle failed to do that with his strict adherence to formulas involving pitch counts, resting players (after days off) and how the BP was used. But some of that was probably ordered from above. And if so, a stronger manager is needed to stand up to the GM and use more common sense. Even if a better manager had won (just for the sake of argument) 10 more games, this would still have been a below .500 team. This franchise needs a lot of significant changes. Getting a better manager is just one of them and won't be enough on its own. But I suspect it's more of a cosmetic change to appease fans and the network that will be negotiating a new broadcast deal. If nothing else changes, the improvements a better manager could make won't make enough of a difference.
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Excellent article! I have long believed Hurdle needed to go. Being a nice guy doesn't win games. But the problems are far greater than him and start at the top. No manager will succeed when the owner can't wait to rid himself of every contract before it reaches market level value or with a GM who consistently misevaluates who they draft, who they trade away and who they acquire. The manager can only try to get the most out of the roster he's handed. I think Hurdle failed to do that with his strict adherence to formulas involving pitch counts, resting players (after days off) and how the BP was used. But some of that was probably ordered from above. And if so, a stronger manager is needed to stand up to the GM and use more common sense. Even if a better manager had won (just for the sake of argument) 10 more games, this would still have been a below .500 team. This franchise needs a lot of significant changes. Getting a better manager is just one of them and won't be enough on its own. But I suspect it's more of a cosmetic change to appease fans and the network that will be negotiating a new broadcast deal. If nothing else changes, the improvements a better manager could make won't make enough of a difference.
Hurdle fired
220F02131405125251600 wrote: http://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2019/ ... s-that-it/
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Excellent article! I have long believed Hurdle needed to go. Being a nice guy doesn't win games. But the problems are far greater than him and start at the top. No manager will succeed when the owner can't wait to rid himself of every contract before it reaches market level value or with a GM who consistently misevaluates who they draft, who they trade away and who they acquire. The manager can only try to get the most out of the roster he's handed. I think Hurdle failed to do that with his strict adherence to formulas involving pitch counts, resting players (after days off) and how the BP was used. But some of that was probably ordered from above. And if so, a stronger manager is needed to stand up to the GM and use more common sense. Even if a better manager had won (just for the sake of argument) 10 more games, this would still have been a below .500 team. This franchise needs a lot of significant changes. Getting a better manager is just one of them and won't be enough on its own. But I suspect it's more of a cosmetic change to appease fans and the network that will be negotiating a new broadcast deal. If nothing else changes, the improvements a better manager could make won't make enough of a difference.
I wouldn't be surprised that the team ends up with a Hurdle clone. I think many of the things he did were supported by the front office - thinking mostly of pitch counts, resting players. I think NH and his staff encouraged a lot of those strategies. Neal's analytics dept may have even helped with proposing lineups.
DK hits a Home Run with this article.
Excellent article! I have long believed Hurdle needed to go. Being a nice guy doesn't win games. But the problems are far greater than him and start at the top. No manager will succeed when the owner can't wait to rid himself of every contract before it reaches market level value or with a GM who consistently misevaluates who they draft, who they trade away and who they acquire. The manager can only try to get the most out of the roster he's handed. I think Hurdle failed to do that with his strict adherence to formulas involving pitch counts, resting players (after days off) and how the BP was used. But some of that was probably ordered from above. And if so, a stronger manager is needed to stand up to the GM and use more common sense. Even if a better manager had won (just for the sake of argument) 10 more games, this would still have been a below .500 team. This franchise needs a lot of significant changes. Getting a better manager is just one of them and won't be enough on its own. But I suspect it's more of a cosmetic change to appease fans and the network that will be negotiating a new broadcast deal. If nothing else changes, the improvements a better manager could make won't make enough of a difference.
I wouldn't be surprised that the team ends up with a Hurdle clone. I think many of the things he did were supported by the front office - thinking mostly of pitch counts, resting players. I think NH and his staff encouraged a lot of those strategies. Neal's analytics dept may have even helped with proposing lineups.