2200130E0D080F00231402020E610 wrote: By the way I don't blame Cora at all for sending Stallings home with no outs. If you hold him at third, the Pirates have a runner at 3rd with no outs.
The Pirates never score the runner from 3rd with no outs.
Never.
I've been watching baseball for 61 years . I don't think I've ever seen a man thrown out at home by 8 or 9 feet with no outs. I also coached for over 20 years . Little league to college age kids in summer leagues and same goes for that.
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
9 down
51 games to go to draft Rocker
51 games to go to draft Rocker
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
0B293A27242126290A3D2B2B27480 wrote: Did 2013-2015 really happen?
Not with these guys,. Not with this payroll.
Even then, it was only so good. Our version of the world series.
That tells you how far we have to go, talent-wise, which is also payroll-wise, whether people choose to admit it or not.
Not with these guys,. Not with this payroll.
Even then, it was only so good. Our version of the world series.
That tells you how far we have to go, talent-wise, which is also payroll-wise, whether people choose to admit it or not.
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SteadyFreddy
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
I have a huge problem with Shelton taking out Brault when he had a lead and had not given up a hit yet all because of some pre-game strategy already planned before the game of having Chad Kuhl come in and pitch. When you are 2-7 and are trying like hell to win a game with an anemic offense it’s okay to shift a strategy mid-game and say to yourself You know Brault is pitching very good I’m gonna just leave him in and see how things go. This really bothered me yesterday along with many other things Shelton has done these first 9 games. I know he doesn’t have a ton to work with but the bottom line he has not done a good job so far and I’m not very impressed with what I have seen thus far.
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Bobster21
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
695C4B4B40794B4B40474B2E0 wrote: Did 2013-2015 really happen?
Not with these guys,. Not with this payroll.
Even then, it was only so good. Our version of the world series.
That tells you how far we have to go, talent-wise, which is also payroll-wise, whether people choose to admit it or not.
True. And we aren't even talking about average MLB payroll. But in 2013, 2014 and 2015 the Pirates payroll was 52.8%, 64.2% and 77.1% of the MLB average. Of course it helped that the Yankees paid most of Burnett's contract in 2012 and 2013 (Bucs paid 6.5 mil each of those 2 years instead of the full 16.5 mil) and he came back for 2015 at 8.5 mil after getting 15 the year before from Philly. The 98 win team of 2015 was a solid team with good starters, good bench, good BP and 3 good starting pitchers (plus Locke and Morton). And it only cost roughly 3/4ths of the average MLB payroll. But it seemed as if immediately afterward Nutting must have said, "It's gonna cost me how much to stay competitive?" And he pulled the plug. The 2016 payroll increased by less than $100,000 as they fell to 74% of the MLB average by making minimal moves and watching a 98 win team fall to 78 wins. Then for 2017, 2018 and 2019 the payroll fell to 73%, 67% and 52% of the average MLB payroll until the talent level of the roster was barely equal to AAA. (Maybe AA.) So even 3/4ths of the average payroll was too much for Nutting and the roster was immediately slashed to provide the fans with a garbage team at minimal cost.
Not with these guys,. Not with this payroll.
Even then, it was only so good. Our version of the world series.
That tells you how far we have to go, talent-wise, which is also payroll-wise, whether people choose to admit it or not.
True. And we aren't even talking about average MLB payroll. But in 2013, 2014 and 2015 the Pirates payroll was 52.8%, 64.2% and 77.1% of the MLB average. Of course it helped that the Yankees paid most of Burnett's contract in 2012 and 2013 (Bucs paid 6.5 mil each of those 2 years instead of the full 16.5 mil) and he came back for 2015 at 8.5 mil after getting 15 the year before from Philly. The 98 win team of 2015 was a solid team with good starters, good bench, good BP and 3 good starting pitchers (plus Locke and Morton). And it only cost roughly 3/4ths of the average MLB payroll. But it seemed as if immediately afterward Nutting must have said, "It's gonna cost me how much to stay competitive?" And he pulled the plug. The 2016 payroll increased by less than $100,000 as they fell to 74% of the MLB average by making minimal moves and watching a 98 win team fall to 78 wins. Then for 2017, 2018 and 2019 the payroll fell to 73%, 67% and 52% of the average MLB payroll until the talent level of the roster was barely equal to AAA. (Maybe AA.) So even 3/4ths of the average payroll was too much for Nutting and the roster was immediately slashed to provide the fans with a garbage team at minimal cost.
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Bobster21
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
17302125203D02362120203D440 wrote: I have a huge problem with Shelton taking out Brault when he had a lead and had not given up a hit yet all because of some pre-game strategy already planned before the game of having Chad Kuhl come in and pitch. When you are 2-7 and are trying like hell to win a game with an anemic offense it’s okay to shift a strategy mid-game and say to yourself You know Brault is pitching very good I’m gonna just leave him in and see how things go. This really bothered me yesterday along with many other things Shelton has done these first 9 games. I know he doesn’t have a ton to work with but the bottom line he has not done a good job so far and I’m not very impressed with what I have seen thus far.
And it's not as if Brault can't go longer. He was in the rotation last year making 19 starts. He only threw 35 pitches. This looked like a case of Shelton saying, "Hey look at me! I'm being innovative." The announcers even said Shelton had vowed to only let him pitch 3 innings no matter what. But why? Is the point of the game to watch the manager make moves or is it to utilize the players to the best extent to try to win a game? I'm sure the Cubs were very glad to see Shelton be innovative and remove the guy they couldn't touch after 3 innings. And less than 2 innings later they had 2 doubles, a walk and the game tying run. And Shelton was en route to a 9 pitcher game. But hey. Who wants to see the team try to win when you could be watching a manager manage? Yay Shelton! Way to make moves! Don't let success get in the way of your innovative game plan. And I can't wait to hear tonight how the BP is worn out after 8 relievers appeared yesterday beginning for no apparent reason in the 4th inning.
And it's not as if Brault can't go longer. He was in the rotation last year making 19 starts. He only threw 35 pitches. This looked like a case of Shelton saying, "Hey look at me! I'm being innovative." The announcers even said Shelton had vowed to only let him pitch 3 innings no matter what. But why? Is the point of the game to watch the manager make moves or is it to utilize the players to the best extent to try to win a game? I'm sure the Cubs were very glad to see Shelton be innovative and remove the guy they couldn't touch after 3 innings. And less than 2 innings later they had 2 doubles, a walk and the game tying run. And Shelton was en route to a 9 pitcher game. But hey. Who wants to see the team try to win when you could be watching a manager manage? Yay Shelton! Way to make moves! Don't let success get in the way of your innovative game plan. And I can't wait to hear tonight how the BP is worn out after 8 relievers appeared yesterday beginning for no apparent reason in the 4th inning.
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SteadyFreddy
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
153835242332256566570 wrote: I have a huge problem with Shelton taking out Brault when he had a lead and had not given up a hit yet all because of some pre-game strategy already planned before the game of having Chad Kuhl come in and pitch. When you are 2-7 and are trying like hell to win a game with an anemic offense it’s okay to shift a strategy mid-game and say to yourself You know Brault is pitching very good I’m gonna just leave him in and see how things go. This really bothered me yesterday along with many other things Shelton has done these first 9 games. I know he doesn’t have a ton to work with but the bottom line he has not done a good job so far and I’m not very impressed with what I have seen thus far.
And it's not as if Brault can't go longer. He was in the rotation last year making 19 starts. He only threw 35 pitches. This looked like a case of Shelton saying, "Hey look at me! I'm being innovative." The announcers even said Shelton had vowed to only let him pitch 3 innings no matter what. But why? Is the point of the game to watch the manager make moves or is it to utilize the players to the best extent to try to win a game? I'm sure the Cubs were very glad to see Shelton be innovative and remove the guy they couldn't touch after 3 innings. And less than 2 innings later they had 2 doubles, a walk and the game tying run. And Shelton was en route to a 9 pitcher game. But hey. Who wants to see the team try to win when you could be watching a manager manage? Yay Shelton! Way to make moves! Don't let success get in the way of your innovative game plan. And I can't wait to hear tonight how the BP is worn out after 8 relievers appeared yesterday beginning for no apparent reason in the 4th inning.
I know it’s only been a small sample size not even 10 games but I’m with you Bobster it seems so far that Shelton seems more concerned with actually having the power of finally being a manager and making all kinds of different moves to show how smart he can be as opposed to managing to win a game. You’re seeing this on a daily basis too with different lineup changes, guys playing different positions, and with Bell and Reynolds both getting the day off just to use a few examples. It’s very bizarre and I don’t know what Shelton is trying to do or prove by doing these kinds of things every game but so far it’s not doing him any favors at all early in his tenure with a fanbase who will not have any patience with a manager doing things like this and not winning any games in the process.
And it's not as if Brault can't go longer. He was in the rotation last year making 19 starts. He only threw 35 pitches. This looked like a case of Shelton saying, "Hey look at me! I'm being innovative." The announcers even said Shelton had vowed to only let him pitch 3 innings no matter what. But why? Is the point of the game to watch the manager make moves or is it to utilize the players to the best extent to try to win a game? I'm sure the Cubs were very glad to see Shelton be innovative and remove the guy they couldn't touch after 3 innings. And less than 2 innings later they had 2 doubles, a walk and the game tying run. And Shelton was en route to a 9 pitcher game. But hey. Who wants to see the team try to win when you could be watching a manager manage? Yay Shelton! Way to make moves! Don't let success get in the way of your innovative game plan. And I can't wait to hear tonight how the BP is worn out after 8 relievers appeared yesterday beginning for no apparent reason in the 4th inning.
I know it’s only been a small sample size not even 10 games but I’m with you Bobster it seems so far that Shelton seems more concerned with actually having the power of finally being a manager and making all kinds of different moves to show how smart he can be as opposed to managing to win a game. You’re seeing this on a daily basis too with different lineup changes, guys playing different positions, and with Bell and Reynolds both getting the day off just to use a few examples. It’s very bizarre and I don’t know what Shelton is trying to do or prove by doing these kinds of things every game but so far it’s not doing him any favors at all early in his tenure with a fanbase who will not have any patience with a manager doing things like this and not winning any games in the process.
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
When they interview Shelton, I am reminded of Baghdad Bob. He goes on and on about how good this guy played and how good that guy pitched while we are 2-7 with the worst record in all of baseball.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
Bagdad Bob painting the roseist of paintings?
You don't need to travel outside of the U.S. for THAT.
There's a guy living in the NL- East doing it every Tweet.
You don't need to travel outside of the U.S. for THAT.
There's a guy living in the NL- East doing it every Tweet.
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Bobster21
I can see interest in this season is really picking up!
0B2C3D393C211E2A3D3C3C21580 wrote: I have a huge problem with Shelton taking out Brault when he had a lead and had not given up a hit yet all because of some pre-game strategy already planned before the game of having Chad Kuhl come in and pitch. When you are 2-7 and are trying like hell to win a game with an anemic offense it’s okay to shift a strategy mid-game and say to yourself You know Brault is pitching very good I’m gonna just leave him in and see how things go. This really bothered me yesterday along with many other things Shelton has done these first 9 games. I know he doesn’t have a ton to work with but the bottom line he has not done a good job so far and I’m not very impressed with what I have seen thus far.
And it's not as if Brault can't go longer. He was in the rotation last year making 19 starts. He only threw 35 pitches. This looked like a case of Shelton saying, "Hey look at me! I'm being innovative." The announcers even said Shelton had vowed to only let him pitch 3 innings no matter what. But why? Is the point of the game to watch the manager make moves or is it to utilize the players to the best extent to try to win a game? I'm sure the Cubs were very glad to see Shelton be innovative and remove the guy they couldn't touch after 3 innings. And less than 2 innings later they had 2 doubles, a walk and the game tying run. And Shelton was en route to a 9 pitcher game. But hey. Who wants to see the team try to win when you could be watching a manager manage? Yay Shelton! Way to make moves! Don't let success get in the way of your innovative game plan. And I can't wait to hear tonight how the BP is worn out after 8 relievers appeared yesterday beginning for no apparent reason in the 4th inning.
I know it’s only been a small sample size not even 10 games but I’m with you Bobster it seems so far that Shelton seems more concerned with actually having the power of finally being a manager and making all kinds of different moves to show how smart he can be as opposed to managing to win a game. You’re seeing this on a daily basis too with different lineup changes, guys playing different positions, and with Bell and Reynolds both getting the day off just to use a few examples. It’s very bizarre and I don’t know what Shelton is trying to do or prove by doing these kinds of things every game but so far it’s not doing him any favors at all early in his tenure with a fanbase who will not have any patience with a manager doing things like this and not winning any games in the process.
I sure hope Shelton gets better at his new job. It's not his fault he has such a poor team. But it's his fault when he doesn't use what he has to its maximum capability. All you can ask of a manager is to do the best he can with what he's got. Shelton is not even doing that. The last time I saw a manager get off to such a nonsensical start was McClendon. And he never got better. I hope we won't be saying Shelton never got better.
And it's not as if Brault can't go longer. He was in the rotation last year making 19 starts. He only threw 35 pitches. This looked like a case of Shelton saying, "Hey look at me! I'm being innovative." The announcers even said Shelton had vowed to only let him pitch 3 innings no matter what. But why? Is the point of the game to watch the manager make moves or is it to utilize the players to the best extent to try to win a game? I'm sure the Cubs were very glad to see Shelton be innovative and remove the guy they couldn't touch after 3 innings. And less than 2 innings later they had 2 doubles, a walk and the game tying run. And Shelton was en route to a 9 pitcher game. But hey. Who wants to see the team try to win when you could be watching a manager manage? Yay Shelton! Way to make moves! Don't let success get in the way of your innovative game plan. And I can't wait to hear tonight how the BP is worn out after 8 relievers appeared yesterday beginning for no apparent reason in the 4th inning.
I know it’s only been a small sample size not even 10 games but I’m with you Bobster it seems so far that Shelton seems more concerned with actually having the power of finally being a manager and making all kinds of different moves to show how smart he can be as opposed to managing to win a game. You’re seeing this on a daily basis too with different lineup changes, guys playing different positions, and with Bell and Reynolds both getting the day off just to use a few examples. It’s very bizarre and I don’t know what Shelton is trying to do or prove by doing these kinds of things every game but so far it’s not doing him any favors at all early in his tenure with a fanbase who will not have any patience with a manager doing things like this and not winning any games in the process.
I sure hope Shelton gets better at his new job. It's not his fault he has such a poor team. But it's his fault when he doesn't use what he has to its maximum capability. All you can ask of a manager is to do the best he can with what he's got. Shelton is not even doing that. The last time I saw a manager get off to such a nonsensical start was McClendon. And he never got better. I hope we won't be saying Shelton never got better.