Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
I suspect he's a place saver until the team's talent level gets to the point where serious winning is possible, then they'll bring in another manager.
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
34362C2A3C590 wrote: I suspect he's a place saver until the team's talent level gets to the point where serious winning is possible, then they'll bring in another manager.
That might not have been the intention when he was hired but it seems to be necessary now that he be gone when the team has a chance to be competitive. I can't imagine that BC thought Shelton would turn out to be this bad when he hired him. It's bad enough that they gave the fans so little to hold their interest at the MLB level while building up the minors. But every time the fans have a chance to enjoy a game Shelton ruins it with his incompetence. I think a lot of fans who have stayed loyal despite the lack of talent on the team are being turned off by Shelton's repeated mistakes that cost some of the few wins that are possible.
That might not have been the intention when he was hired but it seems to be necessary now that he be gone when the team has a chance to be competitive. I can't imagine that BC thought Shelton would turn out to be this bad when he hired him. It's bad enough that they gave the fans so little to hold their interest at the MLB level while building up the minors. But every time the fans have a chance to enjoy a game Shelton ruins it with his incompetence. I think a lot of fans who have stayed loyal despite the lack of talent on the team are being turned off by Shelton's repeated mistakes that cost some of the few wins that are possible.
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
383A202630550 wrote: I suspect he's a place saver until the team's talent level gets to the point where serious winning is possible, then they'll bring in another manager.
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With Cherington as GM, our talent level will never get to the point where serious winning is possible, so Shelton's job is safe.
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With Cherington as GM, our talent level will never get to the point where serious winning is possible, so Shelton's job is safe.
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
Okay Shedman, I'll take the bait.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
7A565E595275425444370 wrote: Okay Shedman, I'll take the bait.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
"The losses are mounting, but"....the losses are mounting.
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
574C414049454A240 wrote: Okay Shedman, I'll take the bait.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
Are you under the impression that Cherington had unlimited financial resources to work with? That Marte would have re-signed as a FA in 2022? That Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would have signed to stay as FAs in 2023? That, not only was money no object, but they all wanted to tie themselves to the Pirate organization through the next phases of their careers? And that Cherington had even more money at his disposal to add a power hitting OFer? If not, do you acknowledge that it was very unlikely any of those players would have stayed as FAs but still believe the Pirates had a very good chance to be post season competitors before losing all of them by 2023 and getting nothing in return for them? So the chance of winning it all in the 2020-2022 window was so realistic that it was worth losing those players in 2023 (Marte a year earlier) and not having a strong minor league system to replace them?
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
Are you under the impression that Cherington had unlimited financial resources to work with? That Marte would have re-signed as a FA in 2022? That Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would have signed to stay as FAs in 2023? That, not only was money no object, but they all wanted to tie themselves to the Pirate organization through the next phases of their careers? And that Cherington had even more money at his disposal to add a power hitting OFer? If not, do you acknowledge that it was very unlikely any of those players would have stayed as FAs but still believe the Pirates had a very good chance to be post season competitors before losing all of them by 2023 and getting nothing in return for them? So the chance of winning it all in the 2020-2022 window was so realistic that it was worth losing those players in 2023 (Marte a year earlier) and not having a strong minor league system to replace them?
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
7B565B4A4D5C4B0B08390 wrote: Okay Shedman, I'll take the bait.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
Are you under the impression that Cherington had unlimited financial resources to work with? That Marte would have re-signed as a FA in 2022? That Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would have signed to stay as FAs in 2023? That, not only was money no object, but they all wanted to tie themselves to the Pirate organization through the next phases of their careers? And that Cherington had even more money at his disposal to add a power hitting OFer? If not, do you acknowledge that it was very unlikely any of those players would have stayed as FAs but still believe the Pirates had a very good chance to be post season competitors before losing all of them by 2023 and getting nothing in return for them? So the chance of winning it all in the 2020-2022 window was so realistic that it was worth losing those players in 2023 (Marte a year earlier) and not having a strong minor league system to replace them?
______
If you set the bar low enough, even Cherington will be able to step over it.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
Are you under the impression that Cherington had unlimited financial resources to work with? That Marte would have re-signed as a FA in 2022? That Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would have signed to stay as FAs in 2023? That, not only was money no object, but they all wanted to tie themselves to the Pirate organization through the next phases of their careers? And that Cherington had even more money at his disposal to add a power hitting OFer? If not, do you acknowledge that it was very unlikely any of those players would have stayed as FAs but still believe the Pirates had a very good chance to be post season competitors before losing all of them by 2023 and getting nothing in return for them? So the chance of winning it all in the 2020-2022 window was so realistic that it was worth losing those players in 2023 (Marte a year earlier) and not having a strong minor league system to replace them?
______
If you set the bar low enough, even Cherington will be able to step over it.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
All I know is that here we are- thanking God for not being as bad as the D'backs and Orioles. With that in mind, I'm all for trying better ways. This doesn't cut it.
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Bobster21
Official Game Thread - 6/20 - Bob's Stooges vs The Tribe
726964656C606F010 wrote: Okay Shedman, I'll take the bait.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
Are you under the impression that Cherington had unlimited financial resources to work with? That Marte would have re-signed as a FA in 2022? That Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would have signed to stay as FAs in 2023? That, not only was money no object, but they all wanted to tie themselves to the Pirate organization through the next phases of their careers? And that Cherington had even more money at his disposal to add a power hitting OFer? If not, do you acknowledge that it was very unlikely any of those players would have stayed as FAs but still believe the Pirates had a very good chance to be post season competitors before losing all of them by 2023 and getting nothing in return for them? So the chance of winning it all in the 2020-2022 window was so realistic that it was worth losing those players in 2023 (Marte a year earlier) and not having a strong minor league system to replace them?
______
If you set the bar low enough, even Cherington will be able to step over it.
The bar for Cherington is not set based on what he does not have the resources to do. The bar for Cherington is set based on what he is doing in the only realistic course of action available to him.
We like to have immediate results. So if BC has traded players and has little on the current MLB roster to show for it he must be a bum. But of course those trades were not made to enhance the current MLB roster. He acquired a number of prospects who are doing well in the organization and should be on course to significantly upgrade the MLB roster in the next year or 2. That's the bar for BC. If he has used his trading hips to acquire prospects who will be of little help, then BC will be a bum. If he succeeded in that goal, then the Pirates will be contenders and he will be a success. We just have to wait for the results and people don't like to wait. It's just easier for some to declare he's a failure right now because the success of what he is actually doing can't yet be known.
How much talent do you believe BC had an opportunity to bring in when he had to significantly reduce last year's meager budget to field this year's team? It would be good to hear names and salary numbers from you.
In my opinion, BC is taking the only route that is available to him --- trade your limited assets to infuse as many prospects as you can into the system and hope that enough produce well to give you a chance of success. While few of the acquired prospects are now performing in Pittsburgh, Bednar has been a good acquisition, while Crowe and Yajure have hot done as well.
That said, looking at the overall quality of the current team, I would much rather have the likes of Contreas, Yagure, Heard, Rodriguez and others than Bell, Musgove and Tallion. The losses are mounting, but perhaps they and current prospects in the system can join the likes of Hayes and Reynolds to create an opportunity for success.
_____
I know it is hopeless, but I will give it a stab anyway. Since Cherington came here, last year we had the worst record in all of baseball. This year there are only 2 teams with a worse record. He has given away major league ball players for virtually nothing. Mussgrove has a 2.28 ERA and a .85 WHIP. All we get is a collection of suspects who may never see a major league uniform. But I know I won't convince you. It is easy to blame someone else. Blame Nutting, blame Shelton, blame Polanco, but give a pass to Cherington. Instead of salary dumping Musgrove, Bell, Marte, and Taillon, he should have kept those guys and added a power hitting OF. But instead just kick the can down the road to a future that will never arrive in Pittsburgh. Meantime Bob Nutting will pocket scads and scads of cash.
Are you under the impression that Cherington had unlimited financial resources to work with? That Marte would have re-signed as a FA in 2022? That Bell, Musgrove and Taillon would have signed to stay as FAs in 2023? That, not only was money no object, but they all wanted to tie themselves to the Pirate organization through the next phases of their careers? And that Cherington had even more money at his disposal to add a power hitting OFer? If not, do you acknowledge that it was very unlikely any of those players would have stayed as FAs but still believe the Pirates had a very good chance to be post season competitors before losing all of them by 2023 and getting nothing in return for them? So the chance of winning it all in the 2020-2022 window was so realistic that it was worth losing those players in 2023 (Marte a year earlier) and not having a strong minor league system to replace them?
______
If you set the bar low enough, even Cherington will be able to step over it.
The bar for Cherington is not set based on what he does not have the resources to do. The bar for Cherington is set based on what he is doing in the only realistic course of action available to him.
We like to have immediate results. So if BC has traded players and has little on the current MLB roster to show for it he must be a bum. But of course those trades were not made to enhance the current MLB roster. He acquired a number of prospects who are doing well in the organization and should be on course to significantly upgrade the MLB roster in the next year or 2. That's the bar for BC. If he has used his trading hips to acquire prospects who will be of little help, then BC will be a bum. If he succeeded in that goal, then the Pirates will be contenders and he will be a success. We just have to wait for the results and people don't like to wait. It's just easier for some to declare he's a failure right now because the success of what he is actually doing can't yet be known.