OnlyBucs

Bob & i agree on the issue with Keller.



Keller has a pitching coach to address "confidence." If "confidence" is the issue, then I'll either find a confident pitcher somewhere....or, I'll find a pitching coach.

Yesterday Keller pitched 1.2 innings in relief for Indy and gave up 1 hit, a run (unearned) and 3 walks.



Meanwhile Alford is hitting .302 for Indy. In his last 18 games he's hitting .407 (22 for 54) with 5 HRs. But we can't find room for him because we have Ka'ai Tom hitting .150. (.135 if you count his 1 for 16 with Oakland.) In Tom's last 18 games he's hitting .100 (4 for 40).

Keller is pitching tonight at Indy. Seems like same old outing: so far three innings, 3 runs , six strikeouts, 3 walks and 58 pitches. I am beginning to think he is not the pitcher the Pirates projected him to be. At this point I would not care if he was a #3 or #4 starter, but he is far from it.

727E7F242D242C21263923140 wrote: Keller is pitching tonight at Indy. Seems like same old outing: so far three innings, 3 runs , six strikeouts, 3 walks and 58 pitches. I am beginning to think he is not the pitcher the Pirates projected him to be. At this point I would not care if he was a #3 or #4 starter, but he is far from it.


It looks like the Pirates have been very conservative with Keller in Indy. He has generally pitched well but in short stints. His Indy game log prior to tonight shows appearances of 1, 1.2, 3, 4, 5, 5.1 and 3 innings. In that total of 23 innings he has a nice ERA of 2.35 but still has control problems with 10 walks. His last game was poor with 3 runs and 3 walks in just 3 innings and it sounds like he's struggling again tonight.



The problem with short stints (and I include 5 innings as a short stint) is that it seems they pull him to make sure he doesn't pitch long enough to fail. So you never know if he's pitching well or if the batters just didn't have a chance to catch up to him. Are they actually afraid to let him face a AAA lineup a 3rd time? Keller needs to firmly establish that he is too good for AAA hitters. But between his poor outings and the fact that they don't let him pitch for long when he's effective, he is not proving much at Indy.

His last start was very bad other than 9 Ks.



5 innings, 7 hits, 3 walks, 6 runs (4 earned). Those 5 innings took 91 pitches. He now has walked 9 in his last 13.1 innings. AAA ERA is now 3.21. Two starts ago it was 1.80. His longest outing at AAA this year is 5.1 innings and that took 94 pitches.



Even before this year, Keller's AAA stats were not that impressive other than a high number of Ks. It's no wonder he struggled so badly vs MLB hitters when he has never been able to dominate at AAA.

674A47565140571714250 wrote: His last start was very bad other than 9 Ks.



5 innings, 7 hits, 3 walks, 6 runs (4 earned). Those 5 innings took 91 pitches. He now has walked 9 in his last 13.1 innings. AAA ERA is now 3.21. Two starts ago it was 1.80. His longest outing at AAA this year is 5.1 innings and that took 94 pitches.



Even before this year, Keller's AAA stats were not that impressive other than a high number of Ks. It's no wonder he struggled so badly vs MLB hitters when he has never been able to dominate at AAA.
What bothers me a lot with Keller is that often times he is ahead in the count, but he cannot put away the hitter.

There has been a lot written about Mitch Keller within this group of posts, but as I think about his first two starts since retuning from Indy, I have to wonder about his future with the Pirates. I know his total amount of MLB innings and starts (30 starts 127 innings ) are not many, but if he continues to not show improvement how long can the Bucs send him out to start? My guess is they are going to let him remain in the rotation the remainder of the season, with the hope he can pitch and win a few games. If the results aren’t there, could they move on from him this offseason?  When he pitches I think will this be the inning in which  he will end up giving up a few runs. I guess in my opinion I have little or no confidence that  he can get through an inning without surrendering any runs. No sure if it is his ability, mechanics or confidence, but it seems something is lacking.

7F7372292029212C2B342E190 wrote: There has been a lot written about Mitch Keller within this group of posts, but as I think about his first two starts since retuning from Indy, I have to wonder about his future with the Pirates. I know his total amount of MLB innings and starts (30 starts 127 innings ) are not many, but if he continues to not show improvement how long can the Bucs send him out to start? My guess is they are going to let him remain in the rotation the remainder of the season, with the hope he can pitch and win a few games. If the results aren’t there, could they move on from him this offseason?  When he pitches I think will this be the inning in which  he will end up giving up a few runs. I guess in my opinion I have little or no confidence that  he can get through an inning without surrendering any runs. No sure if it is his ability, mechanics or confidence, but it seems something is lacking.


one big critique I have seen of Keller on other boards is that his fastball (and other pitches) just don't have much movement. I don't think he can be successful at ML level without movement on his fastball. Do those of you that watch the games agree or disagree about Keller's pitches and movement?

5B7D7C6B7D6D1E0 wrote: There has been a lot written about Mitch Keller within this group of posts, but as I think about his first two starts since retuning from Indy, I have to wonder about his future with the Pirates. I know his total amount of MLB innings and starts (30 starts 127 innings ) are not many, but if he continues to not show improvement how long can the Bucs send him out to start? My guess is they are going to let him remain in the rotation the remainder of the season, with the hope he can pitch and win a few games. If the results aren’t there, could they move on from him this offseason?  When he pitches I think will this be the inning in which  he will end up giving up a few runs. I guess in my opinion I have little or no confidence that  he can get through an inning without surrendering any runs. No sure if it is his ability, mechanics or confidence, but it seems something is lacking.


one big critique I have seen of Keller on other boards is that his fastball (and other pitches) just don't have much movement.  I don't think he can be successful at ML level without movement on his fastball. Do those of you that watch the games agree or disagree about Keller's pitches and movement?


I agree. I just don't see any particular "out pitch" in his repertoire. He walks batters and throws hittable strikes. When I watch him pitch I don't wonder why he's getting hit. I don't expect that his stuff will soon dominate hitters. He looks like what he is: a below average pitcher who is closer to a AAAA type than to a top of the rotation type. He has pitched 58 innings this year and been scored upon in 25 of those innings (43%). That's pretty bad when you're giving up runs in nearly half of your innings. And watching this guy whose best pitch seems to be a straight fastball, he's getting hit at what seems like the expected rate.



Even his AAA stats are unimpressive. Hs AAA career ERA is 3.86. The only thing impressive in AAA was a high K rate. He throws about 97 and overpowers some AAA batters but even at that level he was giving up almost as many hits as innings and averaging nearly 4 runs per 9 innings. He dominated through AA but seemed to have reached his limit at AAA.



After seeing Cole and Morton blossom after leaving, giving Glasnow away when they couldn't develop him, watching Kingham flame out and parting ways with Taillon after illness and injuries dominated his Pirate career, it seems like they used Keller to try to convince the fans that even more pitching was on the way. But nothing he has done after AA justifies the hype.

5D707D6C6B7A6D2D2E1F0 wrote: There has been a lot written about Mitch Keller within this group of posts, but as I think about his first two starts since retuning from Indy, I have to wonder about his future with the Pirates. I know his total amount of MLB innings and starts (30 starts 127 innings ) are not many, but if he continues to not show improvement how long can the Bucs send him out to start? My guess is they are going to let him remain in the rotation the remainder of the season, with the hope he can pitch and win a few games. If the results aren’t there, could they move on from him this offseason?  When he pitches I think will this be the inning in which  he will end up giving up a few runs. I guess in my opinion I have little or no confidence that  he can get through an inning without surrendering any runs. No sure if it is his ability, mechanics or confidence, but it seems something is lacking.


one big critique I have seen of Keller on other boards is that his fastball (and other pitches) just don't have much movement.  I don't think he can be successful at ML level without movement on his fastball. Do those of you that watch the games agree or disagree about Keller's pitches and movement?


I agree. I just don't see any particular "out pitch" in his repertoire. He walks batters and throws hittable strikes. When I watch him pitch I don't wonder why he's getting hit. I don't expect that his stuff will soon dominate hitters. He looks like what he is: a below average pitcher who is closer to a AAAA type than to a top of the rotation type. He has pitched 58 innings this year and been scored upon in 25 of those innings (43%). That's pretty bad when you're giving up runs in nearly half of your innings. And watching this guy whose best pitch seems to be a straight fastball, he's getting hit at what seems like the expected rate.   



Even his AAA stats are unimpressive. Hs AAA career ERA is 3.86. The only thing impressive in AAA was a high K rate. He throws about 97 and overpowers some AAA batters but even at that level he was giving up almost as many hits as innings and averaging nearly 4 runs per 9 innings. He dominated through AA but seemed to have reached his limit at AAA.



After seeing Cole and Morton blossom after leaving, giving Glasnow away when they couldn't develop him, watching Kingham flame out and parting ways with Taillon after illness and injuries dominated his Pirate career, it seems like they used Keller to try to convince the fans that even more pitching was on the way. But nothing he has done after AA justifies the hype.   


I have a feeling Mitch has next year here as a make or break season. He sucks right now and there has been nothing shown to believe he can be useful to us moving forward. However, who is he blocking? No one. Our rotation next year will be garbage again. Brault, Kuhl, Wilson, Brubaker and Keller/Yajure doesn't give me goosebumps. It gives me a massive headache. Say Brault and Wilson pitch well, then you have still massive question marks the rest of the rotation. If Keller was actually blocking someone, I would suggest he is done here. If Contreras or Priester and crew were close to knocking on the door, then ...