Re: Official Game Thread - 9/24 - Pirates vs. Phillies
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:41 pm
022F22333425327271400 wrote: Sometimes, you just have to laugh.
The Pirates need to see another city's atmosphere. Because, their guys beat.....mine.
How long are we expected to accept THAT?
I saw two video clips. The guy loves his "execute," doesn't he?
Prior to managing the Pirates, Shelton had been a coach in MLB for 15 years. His only managing experience was in the lowest ranks of the Yankees system in the Gulf Coast League (Rookie) in 2000 and 2001 and the NY-Penn League (short season low-A) in 2002. No managing experience in high-A, AA, AAA and no previous experience as an MLB manager.
He seems to manage as if he is still in those low levels. He just wants to give his starting pitchers 4-5 innings and his position players a lot of time off as if they are all just getting their feet wet. But as far as managing an MLB team, his lineups, pitching decisions, game strategies and even his quotes suggest he is in over his head. He is trying to oversee the development at this level of players whose progression through A+, AA and AAA was far beyond the beginner levels that he managed.
Best case scenario for this team is that BC's moves for rebuilding the minors pay off and the team is competitive in 2 more years. But it would help if they found someone with at least AAA managing experience to help guide their young roster and make them better MLB players between now and the next 2 years.
You're being gracious (which is good.) I'm not. Let's call it like it is. The guy may as well still at the minor league level. I agree with your conclusion, though I don't totally agree with what leads to it.
I'm expecting it to take one more year (three, total) for most of the suspects to rear their ugly heads. Two is a bit much to expect of the majority. If they were to arrive in 2023, I would think that it would be so late in the season that it won't make much of a difference.
When I think of Shelton, I think of Brett Brown of the NBA Deep Sixers- although I was more impressed by Brown- in that both were supposedly highly regarded up & comer assistants.
Brett Brown came from the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich. You can't get a lot better NBA tuteledge than from Gregg Popovich.
I see that Shelton came from some good organizations, too. I'm just not as familiar with Shelton's backgound to know who some of his primary mentors have been. Are they at that same high of a level?
To your point, his tenure might not be long enough to matter. But, he's our guy right now.
You could be right. I'm not predicting they will be competitive in 2 years but rather saying it's the best case scenario. But I believe having Shelton as manager will hinder the development of the prospects they count on to be productive major leaguers once they reach the majors. In that case, the best case scenario would be somewhere between 3-4 years and never.
And I'm not saying Shelton should be teaching them how to hit, field, run bases etc. They should know that already. But he should do his best to instill a culture of doing whatever can be done to win. The players should get to see that if the starter is being dominant, they can win the game instead of pulling him after 5 innings to turn the game over to a passel of struggling relievers. Or if someone is hot with the bat, that should be an advantage to the team instead of a seat on the bench. The players should learn that if they all do their best and pull together it can create a winning culture instead of being undermined by the manager and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Players shouldn't have to feel that no matter what they do they are likely to lose because the manager doesn't seem committed to winning games. Beyond the basic individual skills required, I think players need to learn to come together as a team to win. When Pirates get traded to good teams it's not uncommon to hear them say the atmosphere is so much different and the payers have confidence and expect to win. I can't imagine Shelton ever instilling that feeling.
I can't imagine Shelton being here when hopefully the rebuild comes to fruition
The Pirates need to see another city's atmosphere. Because, their guys beat.....mine.
How long are we expected to accept THAT?
I saw two video clips. The guy loves his "execute," doesn't he?
Prior to managing the Pirates, Shelton had been a coach in MLB for 15 years. His only managing experience was in the lowest ranks of the Yankees system in the Gulf Coast League (Rookie) in 2000 and 2001 and the NY-Penn League (short season low-A) in 2002. No managing experience in high-A, AA, AAA and no previous experience as an MLB manager.
He seems to manage as if he is still in those low levels. He just wants to give his starting pitchers 4-5 innings and his position players a lot of time off as if they are all just getting their feet wet. But as far as managing an MLB team, his lineups, pitching decisions, game strategies and even his quotes suggest he is in over his head. He is trying to oversee the development at this level of players whose progression through A+, AA and AAA was far beyond the beginner levels that he managed.
Best case scenario for this team is that BC's moves for rebuilding the minors pay off and the team is competitive in 2 more years. But it would help if they found someone with at least AAA managing experience to help guide their young roster and make them better MLB players between now and the next 2 years.
You're being gracious (which is good.) I'm not. Let's call it like it is. The guy may as well still at the minor league level. I agree with your conclusion, though I don't totally agree with what leads to it.
I'm expecting it to take one more year (three, total) for most of the suspects to rear their ugly heads. Two is a bit much to expect of the majority. If they were to arrive in 2023, I would think that it would be so late in the season that it won't make much of a difference.
When I think of Shelton, I think of Brett Brown of the NBA Deep Sixers- although I was more impressed by Brown- in that both were supposedly highly regarded up & comer assistants.
Brett Brown came from the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich. You can't get a lot better NBA tuteledge than from Gregg Popovich.
I see that Shelton came from some good organizations, too. I'm just not as familiar with Shelton's backgound to know who some of his primary mentors have been. Are they at that same high of a level?
To your point, his tenure might not be long enough to matter. But, he's our guy right now.
You could be right. I'm not predicting they will be competitive in 2 years but rather saying it's the best case scenario. But I believe having Shelton as manager will hinder the development of the prospects they count on to be productive major leaguers once they reach the majors. In that case, the best case scenario would be somewhere between 3-4 years and never.
And I'm not saying Shelton should be teaching them how to hit, field, run bases etc. They should know that already. But he should do his best to instill a culture of doing whatever can be done to win. The players should get to see that if the starter is being dominant, they can win the game instead of pulling him after 5 innings to turn the game over to a passel of struggling relievers. Or if someone is hot with the bat, that should be an advantage to the team instead of a seat on the bench. The players should learn that if they all do their best and pull together it can create a winning culture instead of being undermined by the manager and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Players shouldn't have to feel that no matter what they do they are likely to lose because the manager doesn't seem committed to winning games. Beyond the basic individual skills required, I think players need to learn to come together as a team to win. When Pirates get traded to good teams it's not uncommon to hear them say the atmosphere is so much different and the payers have confidence and expect to win. I can't imagine Shelton ever instilling that feeling.
I can't imagine Shelton being here when hopefully the rebuild comes to fruition
