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Re: The Departed
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 3:37 pm
by Bobster
fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 2:47 pm
fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 2:39 pm
Thanks for posting the box score. I noticed time of game 2 hours and 14 minutes. Add another hour to that game today.
I took another look at that box score and 4 players including McBean were selected in the year end expansion draft by the Padres or Expos. The other players included Mota, Wills, and my favorite Clendenon. Coming in 1969 we would see the Baby Bucs, Hebner, Oliver, and Robertson.
That was one of only two games that year with Alley at 2B and Pagan at SS. Alley developed a sore arm in 1967 that never really healed. Patek made his MLB debut in June 1968 and by August was the primary SS with Alley making occasional starts at SS or 2B (where the throw to 1B was less stressful). Although Pagan had been SF's starting SS before the Pirates acquired him, they used him in a super utility role but mostly at 3B. He didn't start a lot of games for them at SS, as I think range was an issue.
Re: The Departed
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:18 pm
by fjk090852-7
Bobster wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 3:37 pm
fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 2:47 pm
fjk090852-7 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 2:39 pm
Thanks for posting the box score. I noticed time of game 2 hours and 14 minutes. Add another hour to that game today.
I took another look at that box score and 4 players including McBean were selected in the year end expansion draft by the Padres or Expos. The other players included Mota, Wills, and my favorite Clendenon. Coming in 1969 we would see the Baby Bucs, Hebner, Oliver, and Robertson.
That was one of only two games that year with Alley at 2B and Pagan at SS. Alley developed a sore arm in 1967 that never really healed. Patek made his MLB debut in June 1968 and by August was the primary SS with Alley making occasional starts at SS or 2B (where the throw to 1B was less stressful). Although Pagan had been SF's starting SS before the Pirates acquired him, they used him in a super utility role but mostly at 3B. He didn't start a lot of games for them at SS, as I think range was an issue.
I remember Alley having the arm problem, but thanks for the information about Freddie Patek taking over at shortstop. I cannot remember Pagan playing much shortstop as you mentioned, but he did fill in at third base. I would think the Pirates won that trade when he was acquired for Dick Schofield. Pagan was a perfect utility player for the Bucs.
Re: The Departed
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:12 pm
by Doc
Possum wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:19 pm
Doc wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 11:43 am
I remember listening to that on the radio. It's a big day when you're a kid and one of your favorite players hits a grand slam.
Here you are Doc. The box score for the July 28, 1968 game vs the Cards.
McBean Grand Slam Game
Thanks for that, Possum. Great memories came flooding off the page. Some things from the box score were interesting. McBean went the distance while giving up 13 hits. That would never happen today. I wonder how many pitches he threw? Matty Alou was hitting third instead of lead-off, but Wills batting first made sense. Clemente was at .269!?! And seeing Manny Mota’s name in the line-up was pretty cool. What a terrific pinch hitter he was.
Re: The Departed
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:01 am
by Babe Adams
McBean went the distance while giving up 13 hits. That would never happen today. I wonder how many pitches he threw?
Maybe not so many for that era, around 138. Someone came up with a formula to estimate pitches:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_p ... _estimator
I'd love to have an accurate count from this game, Bob Veale going 12.1 innings, walking 8 and striking out 16:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxe ... 9300.shtml
The formula estimates 213.
Re: The Departed
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:33 am
by fjk090852-7
They played 16 innings that night, no automatic base runner on second base to begin the extra innings. Just my opinion, but if they wanted to have this rule, I would prefer they play the first couple innings without the ghost runner,
Re: The Departed
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:41 am
by Doc
Good grief, 213 pitches!?! I was curious to see if he made his next start, which would’ve been on October 4. He didn’t, but he did pitch two innings of relief. I also wonder what the difference in his velocity was from the first inning to his last inning. I know complete games were far more common back then but it makes my arm hurt just thinking about throwing 213 major league pitches.
Re: The Departed
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:24 pm
by Bobster
Doc wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:41 am
Good grief, 213 pitches!?! I was curious to see if he made his next start, which would’ve been on October 4. He didn’t, but he did pitch two innings of relief. I also wonder what the difference in his velocity was from the first inning to his last inning. I know complete games were far more common back then but it makes my arm hurt just thinking about throwing 213 major league pitches.
Former Pirate Tom Cheney went 16 innings for the Senators beating Baltimore on 9/12/62. He struck out 21 and threw 228 pitches.
Re: The Departed
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:27 pm
by Bobster
In the game where Veale struck out 16 in 12.1 innings, the Bucs won on a successful squeeze bunt by rookie Jerry May. Otherwise, they might still be playing.
Re: The Departed
Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 12:54 pm
by Wildwoodcoach
Canaan Smith -Njigba claimed by Seattle
Re: The Departed
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 5:56 am
by 3pirates3