OnlyBucs

497C6B6B60596B6B60676B0E0 wrote: No offense.  Don't want to bang on Van Slyke.  Dave Parker's a borderline HOF.  Van Slyke, a little less so.  He was a fine player, not as good as that.  That's a stretch.  What % of votes has he received?



Conclusion seems legit to me, though.
Though WAR is not the end all be all, for their careers AVS had a higher WAR than Dave Parker. But my comment about borderline HOF was during his time with the Bucs, the numbers AVS put up were HOF level, not his entire career, so I didn't quite make that clear. AVS was a 3 time All Star, 5 time legit gold glover, a 2 time silver slugger, received MVP votes in 3 of his seasons, and finished 4th twice. If he would have put up similar production primarily with the Cardinals, AVS would be one of those guys like Parker who come before veteran committees. AVS didn't get a single HOF vote his first year of eligibility in 2001, and was immediately removed from the ballot. Yet his career WAR was higher than Bruce Sutter and Rich Gossage who were both voted into the HOF, and his WAR was higher than the following guys who all received more votes than him in 2001: Steve Garvey, Dave Parker, Dave Concepcion, Dave Stewart, Kirk Gibson, Lance Parrish, Tom Henke, Dave Righetti, Ron Darling, Jose Rijo, Jim Deshaies, Tom Browning, John Kruk, and Steve Bedrosian.



AVS is the more modern equivalent of Al Oliver. I honestly believe he suffered because he played in the "shadow" of a couple of his teammates, his Bobby Bo and Barry Bonds are what Stargell and Clemente were to Scoops.

All good points, in my opinion. A very talented and deservingly respected guy, no doubt about that.

16 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 16:



Woody Jensen, Elbie Fletcher, Frankie Gustine, Pete Castiglione, Brandy Davis, Tom Saffell, Lee Walls, Eddie O'Brien, Bob Porterfield, Gene Baker, Johnny Logan, Ron Brand, Julio Gotay, Wilbur Wood, Del Crandall, Andre Rogers, Chris Cannizzaro, Al Oliver, Will McEnaney, Steve Nicosia, Joe Orsulak, Lee Mazzilli, Hipolito Pena, Bob Kipper, Tom Foley, Nelson Liriano, Joe Randa, Aramis Ramirez, Jose Hernandez, Salomon Torres, Doug Mientkiewicz, Eric Hinske, Pedro Ciriaco, Brandon Jones, Jung Ho Kang.



Best player to wear number 16: Al Oliver. Honorable mention: Frankie Gustine, Aramis Ramirez.

44626570797562747C170 wrote: 16 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 16:



Woody Jensen, Elbie Fletcher, Frankie Gustine, Pete Castiglione, Brandy Davis, Tom Saffell, Lee Walls, Eddie O'Brien, Bob Porterfield, Gene Baker, Johnny Logan, Ron Brand, Julio Gotay, Wilbur Wood, Del Crandall, Andre Rogers, Chris Cannizzaro, Al Oliver, Will McEnaney, Steve Nicosia, Joe Orsulak, Lee Mazzilli, Hipolito Pena, Bob Kipper, Tom Foley, Nelson Liriano, Joe Randa, Aramis Ramirez, Jose Hernandez, Salomon Torres, Doug Mientkiewicz, Eric Hinske, Pedro Ciriaco, Brandon Jones, Jung Ho Kang.



Best player to wear number 16: Al Oliver. Honorable mention: Frankie Gustine, Aramis Ramirez.
One of my all time favorites. I always thought he was both underrated and unappreciated in Pittsburgh, although it was really tough to get noticed with Clemente and Stargell flanking you.

517A6D621B0 wrote: 16 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 16:



Woody Jensen, Elbie Fletcher, Frankie Gustine, Pete Castiglione, Brandy Davis, Tom Saffell, Lee Walls, Eddie O'Brien, Bob Porterfield, Gene Baker, Johnny Logan, Ron Brand, Julio Gotay, Wilbur Wood, Del Crandall, Andre Rogers, Chris Cannizzaro, Al Oliver, Will McEnaney, Steve Nicosia, Joe Orsulak, Lee Mazzilli, Hipolito Pena, Bob Kipper, Tom Foley, Nelson Liriano, Joe Randa, Aramis Ramirez, Jose Hernandez, Salomon Torres, Doug Mientkiewicz, Eric Hinske, Pedro Ciriaco, Brandon Jones, Jung Ho Kang.



Best player to wear number 16: Al Oliver. Honorable mention: Frankie Gustine, Aramis Ramirez.
One of my all time favorites. I always thought he was both underrated and unappreciated in Pittsburgh, although it was really tough to get noticed with Clemente and Stargell flanking you.


He had that short, quick swing that allowed him to hit hard line drives to all fields, over and over again. I loved watching him hit.

765057424B4750464E250 wrote: Bob Kipper


Kipper is currently the pitching coach for the Greenville Drive.



https://twitter.com/GreenvilleDrive/sta ... 6842763265

15 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 15:



Gus Dugas, Bill Brubaker, Steve Swetonic, Johnny Dickshot, Alf Anderson, Lloyd Waner, Roy Wise, Elbie Fletcher, Wally Westlake, Erv Dusak, Frank Thomas, Roman Mejias, Harry Bright, Tom Sturdivant, Manny Mota, Jose Martinez, Gene Clines, Miguel Dilone, Tommy Helms, Doe Boyland, Enrique Romo, Ron Wotus, Pat Clements, George Hendrick, Doug Drabek, Denny Neagle, Keith Osik, Andy LaRoche, Ike Davis, Andrew Lambo, Jason Rogers, Adeiny Hechavarria, Pablo Reyes, JT Riddle, Wilmer Difo, Oneil Cruz.



Best player to wear number 15: Doug Drabek. Honorable mention: Wally Westlake, Frank Thomas, Manny Mota, Gene Clines, Enrique Romo, Denny Neagle.

4C6A6D78717D6A7C741F0 wrote: 15 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 15:



Gus Dugas, Bill Brubaker, Steve Swetonic, Johnny Dickshot, Alf Anderson, Lloyd Waner, Roy Wise, Elbie Fletcher, Wally Westlake, Erv Dusak, Frank Thomas, Roman Mejias, Harry Bright, Tom Sturdivant, Manny Mota, Jose Martinez, Gene Clines, Miguel Dilone, Tommy Helms, Doe Boyland, Enrique Romo, Ron Wotus, Pat Clements, George Hendrick, Doug Drabek, Denny Neagle, Keith Osik, Andy LaRoche, Ike Davis, Andrew Lambo, Jason Rogers, Adeiny Hechavarria, Pablo Reyes, JT Riddle, Wilmer Difo, Oneil Cruz.



Best player to wear number 15: Doug Drabek. Honorable mention: Wally Westlake, Frank Thomas, Manny Mota, Gene Clines, Enrique Romo, Denny Neagle. 


Frank Thomas was my first baseball hero! I was really bummed out when they traded him to the Reds.

14 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 14:



Dave Barbee, Adam Comorosky, Wally Roettger, Babe Herman, Fred Schulte, Heinie Manush, Chuck Klein, Ray Mueller, Bud Stewart, Johnny Wyrostek, Frankie Zak, Billy Sullivan, Gene Woodling, Max West, Wally Judnich, Dino Restelli, George Strickland, Sonny Senerchia, Felipe Montemayor, Pete Naton, Jerry Lynch, Johnny Powers, Rocky Nelson, Larry Elliot, Jim Marshall, Ted Savage, Gene Alley, Jim Bunning, Johnny Jeter, Kurt Bevacqua, Art Howe, Ed Ott, Willie Montanez, Milt May, Mike Diaz, Ken Oberkfell, Tom Prince, Brian Hunter, Mark Parent, Freddy Garcia, Tike Redman, Derek Bell, Jose Castillo, John Bowker, Casey McGehee, Gaby Sanchez, John Buck, Jaff Dacker, Ryan Vogelsong, Jared Oliva, Rodolfo Castro.



Best player to wear number 14: Gene Alley. Honorable mention: Ed Ott.

4C6A6D78717D6A7C741F0 wrote: 14 days until the first Spring Training game. Here are the illustrious Pirates who have worn number 14:



Dave Barbee, Adam Comorosky, Wally Roettger, Babe Herman, Fred Schulte, Heinie Manush, Chuck Klein, Ray Mueller, Bud Stewart, Johnny Wyrostek, Frankie Zak, Billy Sullivan, Gene Woodling, Max West, Wally Judnich, Dino Restelli, George Strickland, Sonny Senerchia, Felipe Montemayor, Pete Naton, Jerry Lynch, Johnny Powers, Rocky Nelson, Larry Elliot, Jim Marshall, Ted Savage, Gene Alley, Jim Bunning, Johnny Jeter, Kurt Bevacqua, Art Howe, Ed Ott, Willie Montanez, Milt May, Mike Diaz, Ken Oberkfell, Tom Prince, Brian Hunter, Mark Parent, Freddy Garcia, Tike Redman, Derek Bell, Jose Castillo, John Bowker, Casey McGehee, Gaby Sanchez, John Buck, Jaff Dacker, Ryan Vogelsong, Jared Oliva, Rodolfo Castro.



Best player to wear number 14:  Gene Alley. Honorable mention: Ed Ott.


Gene Alley was my hero as a boy.  Had he not hurt his shoulder, he would’ve perhaps been the NL’s best, most complete SS from the mid-60s thru most of the 70s.