OnlyBucs

Rameriz comes back out to finish.  Oops again. Holderman on to pitch the 9th. He strikes out the first batter.

Rojas lines out to center. Two outs.

Raise It

Ahmed strikes out to end it. Bucs on a two game winning streak.

Tied for first- 4 games over 500

634E43525544531310210 wrote: The same ones the bean counters and his boss takes.



They all just sit around.  Someone shakes the bag and they see whose name falls out.
Yeah, I think the only thing Shelton knows how to do is follow orders. The abysmal decision-making on this team defies belief. But Shelton was extended rather than fired. So his boss is clearly ok with the head-scratching moves. He most likely dictates them. 


Ster, you and I have a difference of opinion.  I say that Cherington has the bean counters pretty much telling Shelton what guys to roll out there and the suggested order. Some geek from CMU probably runs some program through some computer and has some answer spit out, then they run it down to the manager's office....and, cc: BC.



Let's put it this way......If Ben was all that disturbed with playing time and batting orders, I hardly think that Shelton would be doing it.  Also, we know that Shelton lacks the experience of guys like Buck Showalter and Dusty Baker.  He doesn't have free hand.



All of that said, it's kind of hard to argue with the lineups when you win games by a zillion runs.  It's only when you have a bad slump that it matters.

023720202B1220202B2C20450 wrote: The same ones the bean counters and his boss takes.



They all just sit around.  Someone shakes the bag and they see whose name falls out.
Yeah, I think the only thing Shelton knows how to do is follow orders. The abysmal decision-making on this team defies belief. But Shelton was extended rather than fired. So his boss is clearly ok with the head-scratching moves. He most likely dictates them. 


Ster, you and I have a difference of opinion.  I say that Cherington has the bean counters pretty much telling Shelton what guys to roll out there and the suggested order.  Some geek from CMU probably runs some program through some computer and has some answer spit out, then they run it down to the manager's office....and, cc: BC.



Let's put it this way......If Ben was all that disturbed with playing time and batting orders, I hardly think that Shelton would be doing it.  Also, we know that Shelton lacks the experience of guys like Buck Showalter and Dusty Baker.  He doesn't have free hand.



All of that said, it's kind of hard to argue with the lineups when you win games by a zillion runs.  It's only when you have a bad slump that it matters.


My guess is that the computer geeks report to Cherington and he tells Shelton what to do, at least to some degree. Yesterday, I posed this question to Jason Mackey on his PG chat.



Guest: Joe Madden's book noted that GMs now routinely tell managers who to play or pitch on any given day. How much is Cherington involved in lineup and bullpen decisions and how much leeway does Shelton have in those areas?



Jason Mackey: I would say it's collaborative. I can't give you percentages, but I would also say it's never one-sided. There are a lot more conversations about that stuff now than, say, 20 years ago, where they're getting input from strength & conditioning people, sports performance, analytics, etc. ... Shelton has the final say -- it's his lineup card -- but he might a group of people telling him why something isn't a good idea.



It would have helped if a word had not been omitted from his last sentence.



https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pir ... 2305190074

Unfortunately, Robbie did not do the post game interview so we don't know what led to all those hits and runs.

You and I aren't local to The Burgh.  I read TribLive daily.  Dave reads the PG.



I dont listen to post-game pressies or to any of Shelton's or Cherington's shows.



My question is- do members of the media ask them about "playing time" and/or "lineups" that seem off-center?



It's harder to question moves when they're in first place, but...



Fans pay money and they come to see the better players. 



I'm not sure that Shelton truly has the final say.  Go out of line with your boss often enough, lose, and he'd find out how much "say" he has at all.  He probably goes along with the system, and who could blame him?  The Bucs strike me as being run by committee rather than a dictatorship like managers were back when we were kids.



The Pirates could be the first "committee" that's the better choice!

4B7E6969625B69696265690C0 wrote: You and I aren't local to The Burgh.  I read TribLive daily.  Dave reads the PG.



I dont listen to post-game pressies or to any of Shelton's or Cherington's shows.



My question is- do members of the media ask them about "playing time" and/or "lineups" that seem off-center?



It's harder to question moves when they're in first place, but...



Fans pay money and they come to see the better players. 



I'm not sure that Shelton truly has the final say.  Go out of line with your boss often enough, lose, and he'd find out how much "say" he has at all.  He probably goes along with the system, and who could blame him?  The Bucs strike me as being run by committee rather than a dictatorship like managers were back when we were kids.



The Pirates could be the first "committee" that's the better choice!   :)
That's kind of consistent with what Maddon said in his book. He said managing has changed since he began and he was fired from the Angels because he couldn't accept being told who he could or couldn't use in a game. Those used to be decisions left up to the manager. He said he was even called on the dugout phone during a game with instructions. That violated an old taboo in which the manager was solely in charge once the game started. He added that many current GMs prefer to hire a manager with no prior experience (like Shelton) who don't have a background as an MLB manager making those decisions and readily accept that their duties as manager include following gametime directions from the GM and his staff.