1A2D3B3B3712373D580 wrote: Is anyone still not convinced that after all these moves yesterday that winning is not this teams and this owners top priority when push comes to shove. I been saying that for awhile on here and get scolded and laughed at. But these moves yesterday absolutely proves this point to be true. This team would rather save money and at the same time do the unthinkable of pretty much bribing another team with 2 of your top 10 prospects just so they will eat a player you want to get rid of (Liriano's) entire salary. It's a disgrace and Huntington and this front office should be absolutely embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.
Totally agree and give you credit for not using the word "trades" for the obvious salary dump and the two deck shuffling moves with the NY teams where Nova and Bastardo have been recognized by both the fans and media as being useless.
Every "deal" was a salary dump including the Shark. I give no credit for the return on Mark. No other team in the history of baseball that is in the middle of a playoff race would trade the best closer in the game for an up-and-down 7th inning guy, especially when the new closer (Watson) has been totally inconsistent this year.
If that's not enough to confirm this move as a dump, all we need to know to prove it is that not ONE PENNY went back into the team. No effort to use Mark's dumped salary to fill a need on this team. Instead more millions were dumped.
No one can tell me Malacon was a good baseball move under the circumstances. It was a pure dump.
The whole thing is disgusting.
Last Minute Trade Buzz
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
2423353D3324636F16313B373F3A7835393B560 wrote:
PTBNLs - Nova. Why? He blocks the prospects and isn't an improvement on them. And, they need the ML experience.
I think that he's supposed to block the prospects, and that's why he was acquired. Other than Taillon, I think they want all the kids back at Indy. They can't send Frazier back while he's hitting .350, but if he slumps they will.
We can absolutely crater the Pittsburgh Pirates but "hey, our farm system is #1 and we're going to do EVERYTHING we can to maintain that rank!"
I'm out of town but I can't imagine what's being said locally. The FO deserves any and all criticism.
And the club house, I can't imagine.... Yep lets not worry about winning a pennant for the first time in almost 40 years and winning a World Series. Let's continue to play it safe and not be bold and hang on to every prospect possible and then when we do trade them trade them as a bribe to dump another players salary and not to fill a position of need. It's sickening.
PTBNLs - Nova. Why? He blocks the prospects and isn't an improvement on them. And, they need the ML experience.
I think that he's supposed to block the prospects, and that's why he was acquired. Other than Taillon, I think they want all the kids back at Indy. They can't send Frazier back while he's hitting .350, but if he slumps they will.
We can absolutely crater the Pittsburgh Pirates but "hey, our farm system is #1 and we're going to do EVERYTHING we can to maintain that rank!"
I'm out of town but I can't imagine what's being said locally. The FO deserves any and all criticism.
And the club house, I can't imagine.... Yep lets not worry about winning a pennant for the first time in almost 40 years and winning a World Series. Let's continue to play it safe and not be bold and hang on to every prospect possible and then when we do trade them trade them as a bribe to dump another players salary and not to fill a position of need. It's sickening.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Last Minute Trade Buzz
5F727F6E69786F2F2C1D0 wrote: I still think it was about saving money and this organization under the ownership of Mr. Seven Springs will do whatever it takes to do so and will not take any kind of loss. Like I mentioned before it's still shocking to me that Huntington as much as he talks about how he values prospects and wont part with any, he essentially gave two of his top 10 prospects away as part of a bribe with the Jays so that they would pay all of Liriano's salary. Does this absolutely infuriate anyone else as much as it bothers the hell out of me??
I'm FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is WORSE than the Aramis Ramirez giveaway. In that instance, the league mandated they immediately cut salary because they were not in line with league payroll vs resources guidelines.
The Pirates were pleased to sign Liriano for 3 years and 39 million in 2015. At the beginning of this season, NH said the team payroll was not as high as they could have gone and that it gave them flexibility as the season progressed. Their payroll is 24th out of 30 teams. So there was no reason why they had to desperately shed salary. Had they offered to pay half of Liriano's salary, there's no way Toronto could have also demanded McGuire. But to the Pirates, it's all about saving money. NH says Ramirez and McGuire were expendable. Fine! Then trade them to fill a position of need; not to beg someone to pay a salary for them. Who's next? Maybe Newman and Kramer could entice someone to take another salary off their hands? How much is Kuhl worth? What kind of savings could they get from offering Bell or Meadows? Maybe they should mail coupons to every other team: "Free prospect with every player sale. Buy 1 get 1 free. Get 2 free with coupon!!!" This was a slap in the face to every loyal Pirate fan. They follow a 98-win season and early playoff exit with a cheapo pitching rotation and then give away prospects to shave off even more money from a payroll already one of the lowest in MLB. There can be no doubt this organization is CHEAP. CHEAP! CHEAP!! CHEAP!!! Winning is nice. But saving money is orgasmic to them. After this disgrace, no one will ever convince me this is interested in winning.
I bet they can package Bell with Jaso for a middle relief guy with 5 years control. They need to move on from Bell anyway: the guy has already proved that he's going to cost too much in his arb years.
Besides, we're blocking S-Rod from starting at 1st.
I'm FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is WORSE than the Aramis Ramirez giveaway. In that instance, the league mandated they immediately cut salary because they were not in line with league payroll vs resources guidelines.
The Pirates were pleased to sign Liriano for 3 years and 39 million in 2015. At the beginning of this season, NH said the team payroll was not as high as they could have gone and that it gave them flexibility as the season progressed. Their payroll is 24th out of 30 teams. So there was no reason why they had to desperately shed salary. Had they offered to pay half of Liriano's salary, there's no way Toronto could have also demanded McGuire. But to the Pirates, it's all about saving money. NH says Ramirez and McGuire were expendable. Fine! Then trade them to fill a position of need; not to beg someone to pay a salary for them. Who's next? Maybe Newman and Kramer could entice someone to take another salary off their hands? How much is Kuhl worth? What kind of savings could they get from offering Bell or Meadows? Maybe they should mail coupons to every other team: "Free prospect with every player sale. Buy 1 get 1 free. Get 2 free with coupon!!!" This was a slap in the face to every loyal Pirate fan. They follow a 98-win season and early playoff exit with a cheapo pitching rotation and then give away prospects to shave off even more money from a payroll already one of the lowest in MLB. There can be no doubt this organization is CHEAP. CHEAP! CHEAP!! CHEAP!!! Winning is nice. But saving money is orgasmic to them. After this disgrace, no one will ever convince me this is interested in winning.
I bet they can package Bell with Jaso for a middle relief guy with 5 years control. They need to move on from Bell anyway: the guy has already proved that he's going to cost too much in his arb years.
Besides, we're blocking S-Rod from starting at 1st.
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SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
4B4C5A525C4B0C00795E54585055175A5654390 wrote: Is anyone still not convinced that after all these moves yesterday that winning is not this teams and this owners top priority when push comes to shove. I been saying that for awhile on here and get scolded and laughed at. But these moves yesterday absolutely proves this point to be true. This team would rather save money and at the same time do the unthinkable of pretty much bribing another team with 2 of your top 10 prospects just so they will eat a player you want to get rid of (Liriano's) entire salary. It's a disgrace and Huntington and this front office should be absolutely embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.
Totally agree and give you credit for not using the word "trades" for the obvious salary dump and the two deck shuffling moves with the NY teams where Nova and Bastardo have been recognized by both the fans and media as being useless.
Every "deal" was a salary dump including the Shark. I give no credit for the return on Mark. No other team in the history of baseball that is in the middle of a playoff race would trade the best closer in the game for an up-and-down 7th inning guy, especially when the new closer (Watson) has been totally inconsistent this year.
If that's not enough to confirm this move as a dump, all we need to know to prove it is that not ONE PENNY went back into the team. No effort to use Mark's dumped salary to fill a need on this team. Instead more millions were dumped.
No one can tell me Malacon was a good baseball move under the circumstances. It was a pure dump.
The whole thing is disgusting. Keep saving money Neal, gave Walker away for nothing, and we get Bastardo? is t Massive disappointment, season has been given up on. Can we please for the love of god at least bring up Bell and let the kid play the rest of the year. What a disgrace this year has been management wise, horrible baseball decisions
Totally agree and give you credit for not using the word "trades" for the obvious salary dump and the two deck shuffling moves with the NY teams where Nova and Bastardo have been recognized by both the fans and media as being useless.
Every "deal" was a salary dump including the Shark. I give no credit for the return on Mark. No other team in the history of baseball that is in the middle of a playoff race would trade the best closer in the game for an up-and-down 7th inning guy, especially when the new closer (Watson) has been totally inconsistent this year.
If that's not enough to confirm this move as a dump, all we need to know to prove it is that not ONE PENNY went back into the team. No effort to use Mark's dumped salary to fill a need on this team. Instead more millions were dumped.
No one can tell me Malacon was a good baseball move under the circumstances. It was a pure dump.
The whole thing is disgusting. Keep saving money Neal, gave Walker away for nothing, and we get Bastardo? is t Massive disappointment, season has been given up on. Can we please for the love of god at least bring up Bell and let the kid play the rest of the year. What a disgrace this year has been management wise, horrible baseball decisions
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Last Minute Trade Buzz
But I was asking a serious question: do people think someone would have picked up Liriano just on waivers? Even if you think the worst of the Pirates management (and it's hard not to) then you'd still think they'd want young CHEAP players instead of fill-ins WHO COST MORE MONEY. It's a fun thing to say but playing Jaso instead of Bell, etc. does NOT do that.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Last Minute Trade Buzz
It will come down to 2017 and who is better: Liriano or Hutchison.
I don't know why Reese McGuire was traded. Nor do I know why he was such a late addition (reported late). I thought he would have more value since he was a first round pick.
I am surprised that Liriano was traded. Not because of his production, but because the Pirates will have no veterans going into the 2017 rotation besides Cole.
If McGuire wasn't involved, I wouldn't have minded. I thought he had more value. Hopefully, another trade happens for a top starter or they learned their lesson not signing someone entering the 2017 season.
I did predict a Starter and Bullpen arm at the deadline. I just didn't think Liriano and Melancon would be moved too.
Overall, I don't think the team is much worse (Melancon) than it was yesterday. I just wonder what the rotation will be going forward?
I don't know why Reese McGuire was traded. Nor do I know why he was such a late addition (reported late). I thought he would have more value since he was a first round pick.
I am surprised that Liriano was traded. Not because of his production, but because the Pirates will have no veterans going into the 2017 rotation besides Cole.
If McGuire wasn't involved, I wouldn't have minded. I thought he had more value. Hopefully, another trade happens for a top starter or they learned their lesson not signing someone entering the 2017 season.
I did predict a Starter and Bullpen arm at the deadline. I just didn't think Liriano and Melancon would be moved too.
Overall, I don't think the team is much worse (Melancon) than it was yesterday. I just wonder what the rotation will be going forward?
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ArnoldRothstein
Last Minute Trade Buzz
212630383621666A13343E323A3F7D303C3E530 wrote:
Every "deal" was a salary dump including the Shark. I give no credit for the return on Mark. No other team in the history of baseball that is in the middle of a playoff race would trade the best closer in the game for an up-and-down 7th inning guy, especially when the new closer (Watson) has been totally inconsistent this year.
If that's not enough to confirm this move as a dump, all we need to know to prove it is that not ONE PENNY went back into the team. No effort to use Mark's dumped salary to fill a need on this team. Instead more millions were dumped.
No one can tell me Malacon was a good baseball move under the circumstances. It was a pure dump.
The whole thing is disgusting.
I was thinking about this over the weekend, and with hindsight it seems like the Melancon trade was inevitable. Given the version of moneyball the Pirates follow, it must have been galling for them to be stuck in a position where they really needed Melancon, at $9 million, going into the season. Their strategy about closers is to find someone without the expensive closer label, let him earn the label in Pittsburgh, then trade him and the label for more than they're worth. They couldn't do that this offseason, though, because the pitching in general was so iffy - they needed Melancon. It should have been obvious that they would jump on it, though, if they weren't right in contention and anyone offered them a potential closer and a prospect at the deadline.
Every "deal" was a salary dump including the Shark. I give no credit for the return on Mark. No other team in the history of baseball that is in the middle of a playoff race would trade the best closer in the game for an up-and-down 7th inning guy, especially when the new closer (Watson) has been totally inconsistent this year.
If that's not enough to confirm this move as a dump, all we need to know to prove it is that not ONE PENNY went back into the team. No effort to use Mark's dumped salary to fill a need on this team. Instead more millions were dumped.
No one can tell me Malacon was a good baseball move under the circumstances. It was a pure dump.
The whole thing is disgusting.
I was thinking about this over the weekend, and with hindsight it seems like the Melancon trade was inevitable. Given the version of moneyball the Pirates follow, it must have been galling for them to be stuck in a position where they really needed Melancon, at $9 million, going into the season. Their strategy about closers is to find someone without the expensive closer label, let him earn the label in Pittsburgh, then trade him and the label for more than they're worth. They couldn't do that this offseason, though, because the pitching in general was so iffy - they needed Melancon. It should have been obvious that they would jump on it, though, if they weren't right in contention and anyone offered them a potential closer and a prospect at the deadline.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Last Minute Trade Buzz
dialing back the hysteria just a weeeee bit, no we're about the same for this season. I'm still pissed about tossing away our depth for nothing though.
Last Minute Trade Buzz
2F283E36382F68641D3A303C3431733E32305D0 wrote: Is anyone still not convinced that after all these moves yesterday that winning is not this teams and this owners top priority when push comes to shove. I been saying that for awhile on here and get scolded and laughed at. But these moves yesterday absolutely proves this point to be true. This team would rather save money and at the same time do the unthinkable of pretty much bribing another team with 2 of your top 10 prospects just so they will eat a player you want to get rid of (Liriano's) entire salary. It's a disgrace and Huntington and this front office should be absolutely embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.
Totally agree and give you credit for not using the word "trades" for the obvious salary dump and the two deck shuffling moves with the NY teams where Nova and Bastardo have been recognized by both the fans and media as being useless.
Every "deal" was a salary dump including the Shark. I give no credit for the return on Mark. No other team in the history of baseball that is in the middle of a playoff race would trade the best closer in the game for an up-and-down 7th inning guy, especially when the new closer (Watson) has been totally inconsistent this year.
If that's not enough to confirm this move as a dump, all we need to know to prove it is that not ONE PENNY went back into the team. No effort to use Mark's dumped salary to fill a need on this team. Instead more millions were dumped.
No one can tell me Malacon was a good baseball move under the circumstances. It was a pure dump.
The whole thing is disgusting.
I categorically disagree pretty much everything you said but the first sentence.
Trading Melancon was a dump, but an obvious and fruitful one. He's not the best closer in baseball. I can't imagine any one around MLB would ever suggest that. He gets the job done and has been dependable. But c'mon, he's not going to be here next year. Guys who pitch one inning are way over rated. Realistically, he is going to pitch how many more innings this year...20? In exchange for that, they got a lefty that just broke in who has some very good potential. They also got a young minor leaguer who also has big upside.
Again, closers are over rated. Melancon isn't a difference maker for this team over the last two months. Watson will step in and do a fine job. The bullpen won't miss much of a beat.
IMO, all the trades were fine...except "that one."
Totally agree and give you credit for not using the word "trades" for the obvious salary dump and the two deck shuffling moves with the NY teams where Nova and Bastardo have been recognized by both the fans and media as being useless.
Every "deal" was a salary dump including the Shark. I give no credit for the return on Mark. No other team in the history of baseball that is in the middle of a playoff race would trade the best closer in the game for an up-and-down 7th inning guy, especially when the new closer (Watson) has been totally inconsistent this year.
If that's not enough to confirm this move as a dump, all we need to know to prove it is that not ONE PENNY went back into the team. No effort to use Mark's dumped salary to fill a need on this team. Instead more millions were dumped.
No one can tell me Malacon was a good baseball move under the circumstances. It was a pure dump.
The whole thing is disgusting.
I categorically disagree pretty much everything you said but the first sentence.
Trading Melancon was a dump, but an obvious and fruitful one. He's not the best closer in baseball. I can't imagine any one around MLB would ever suggest that. He gets the job done and has been dependable. But c'mon, he's not going to be here next year. Guys who pitch one inning are way over rated. Realistically, he is going to pitch how many more innings this year...20? In exchange for that, they got a lefty that just broke in who has some very good potential. They also got a young minor leaguer who also has big upside.
Again, closers are over rated. Melancon isn't a difference maker for this team over the last two months. Watson will step in and do a fine job. The bullpen won't miss much of a beat.
IMO, all the trades were fine...except "that one."
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rucker59@gmail.com
Last Minute Trade Buzz
00323E3E2A183B323F3A3532530 wrote: But I was asking a serious question: do people think someone would have picked up Liriano just on waivers? Even if you think the worst of the Pirates management (and it's hard not to) then you'd still think they'd want young CHEAP players instead of fill-ins WHO COST MORE MONEY. It's a fun thing to say but playing Jaso instead of Bell, etc. does NOT do that.
Liranio is having a frustrating and poor season. But he's still much better than Locke, Vogelsong, and the road kill the Yankees and Jays dumped in our front yard. Keep Liranio and dump Locke and Vogelsong.
I would have no problem with A rotation of Cole, Tallion, Kuhl,_____ and Liranio in 2017 IF the _____ is a ligit #4 guy. That has the potential of a high end staff even if we don't include Glasnow and the other young arms. If they come around so much the better.
Liranio is having a frustrating and poor season. But he's still much better than Locke, Vogelsong, and the road kill the Yankees and Jays dumped in our front yard. Keep Liranio and dump Locke and Vogelsong.
I would have no problem with A rotation of Cole, Tallion, Kuhl,_____ and Liranio in 2017 IF the _____ is a ligit #4 guy. That has the potential of a high end staff even if we don't include Glasnow and the other young arms. If they come around so much the better.