OnlyBucs

3A212C2D242827490 wrote: Arenado is one of my favorite players and it's great that I'll be able to see more of him now that he's in the division.  But I'm so frustrated that the Pirates, under this owner, never make moves like this, not because Nutting doesn't have the money, but because he refuses to use it in this fashion. 



It just further erodes my interest in major league baseball.  He's not going to change, he showed that after 2015.  Either MLB has to change by creating equity among the franchises (and I see little incentive for the owners to do that as they're all profitable), or Nutting has to either sell or be forced out.  I don't see that happening, either.  It's a terrible feeling being a Pirates fan knowing this is our lot, and will be for years and years to come.


A lot of us share your feeling but are willing to give BC and BOB one more chance.  My concern is that if BOB sells or is forced to by MLB what will happen to the Pirates franchise.  Will MLB allow a new owner to move the team to a new market once the PNC Park lease expires?  Will a new owner who wants to move the team be able and willing to buy out the remaining lease on PNC Park?  Do you really believe that MLB will move toward equality in its franchises?




I'm all for giving Cherington a chance to build his own team, but not Nutting.  I'll never believe he'll do what it takes to win a title.



As for moving the franchise, I'm not naive enough to think that couldn't happen.  Money talks, and the league will feel no guilt about abandoning Pittsburgh, not caring at all that the area's residents paid for the ballpark, if it's in their best interests.



Do I think the league will move towards equity?  Not really.  Even the franchises earning the least revenue are profitable without taking much risk.  They're virtually guaranteed to succeed because the wealthy franchises help keep them afloat.  They have little incentive to change the current system.



At this point, teams like the Pirates are just there to provide the rich teams someone to play.  For an owner like Nutting, who avoids most risks, that's fine with him.  He gets to be part of a very exclusive club, coming with little cost.  It's the fans of teams like the Pirates who are the big losers, but when did major league baseball ever care about its fans?



The wealthy owners stopped caring that guys like Nutting take shared league revenues and don't use them to win.  Those franchises will receive the money anyway regardless of who owns them.  The wealthy have concluded it's better to give that money to an owner like Nutting, who won't try to win, leaving the path to a World Series title easier to travel as there will be fewer legitimate competitors.


I am not holding my breath waiting for MLB to come in and make all  teams equal, it will never happen.  I completely understand that there are small market clubs that can't compete for the top players like the large market teams.  I am not asking or expecting that the Pirates do that.



There are other small market clubs like Cincinnati and Milwaukee who do exactly what I think the Pirates should do.  There is no reason why our team salary should be lower than the other small market clubs on a yearly basis.



Nutting has found a way to make money with revenue sharing and TV revenues without fielding a competitive team.



And, no, I don't want to give Cherington a "chance".  I realize that there are some who think that Cherington is acquiring prospects as part of some grand master strategy that will make us competitive in some distant "undefined" future, but I don;t buy it. 

There is no reason at all for the Pirates to field a team with a salary below $40 million.  [highlight]I would not be surprised at all to discover that Cherington gets a bonus based upon how much the team salary is below league average.[/highlight]


I disagree about that point.  Cherington is a baseball man, not a businessman.  While he's charged with staying within a budget, his job isn't to make the club money.  He's paid to win.  Now, I wouldn't be surprised to know that Frank Coonelly had it in his contract to keep the payroll under league average.  Coonelly had no knowledge of baseball.



And I agree that there's no reason why the Pirates can't spend in line with what similar-sized markets, like Milwaukee and Cinci, spend.  But if you're waiting for that day while Nutting is the owner, you'll leave this earth before it happens.

655B5E56455D5D567653445700320 wrote: Arenado is one of my favorite players and it's great that I'll be able to see more of him now that he's in the division.  But I'm so frustrated that the Pirates, under this owner, never make moves like this, not because Nutting doesn't have the money, but because he refuses to use it in this fashion. 



It just further erodes my interest in major league baseball.  He's not going to change, he showed that after 2015.  Either MLB has to change by creating equity among the franchises (and I see little incentive for the owners to do that as they're all profitable), or Nutting has to either sell or be forced out.  I don't see that happening, either.  It's a terrible feeling being a Pirates fan knowing this is our lot, and will be for years and years to come.


I have a feeling that after 2030, when the lease runs out at PNC ( I may be history by then :'( the bucs will be gone. Probably Charlotte


If the Pirates leave town, I'll never pay another moments attention to baseball.

Nor will I.

603620343B21313A372012353F333B3E7C31520 wrote: Arenado is one of my favorite players and it's great that I'll be able to see more of him now that he's in the division.  But I'm so frustrated that the Pirates, under this owner, never make moves like this, not because Nutting doesn't have the money, but because he refuses to use it in this fashion. 



It just further erodes my interest in major league baseball.  He's not going to change, he showed that after 2015.  Either MLB has to change by creating equity among the franchises (and I see little incentive for the owners to do that as they're all profitable), or Nutting has to either sell or be forced out.  I don't see that happening, either.  It's a terrible feeling being a Pirates fan knowing this is our lot, and will be for years and years to come.


I have a feeling that after 2030, when the lease runs out at PNC ( I may be history by then :'( the bucs will be gone. Probably Charlotte


If the Pirates leave town, I'll never pay another moments attention to baseball.
When I see quotes like the one from Doc I believe there is passion for baseball in Pittsburgh. Give this area a winning team, and the fans will be there. I have said it a few times on this site, please have the players push for a salary floor in the upcoming CBA and who knows Mr Nutting may put up a for sale sign. No more 40 and 50 million dollar payrolls. Teams must spend or else there will be penalties.

3834356E676E666B6C73695E0 wrote: Arenado is one of my favorite players and it's great that I'll be able to see more of him now that he's in the division.  But I'm so frustrated that the Pirates, under this owner, never make moves like this, not because Nutting doesn't have the money, but because he refuses to use it in this fashion. 



It just further erodes my interest in major league baseball.  He's not going to change, he showed that after 2015.  Either MLB has to change by creating equity among the franchises (and I see little incentive for the owners to do that as they're all profitable), or Nutting has to either sell or be forced out.  I don't see that happening, either.  It's a terrible feeling being a Pirates fan knowing this is our lot, and will be for years and years to come.


I have a feeling that after 2030, when the lease runs out at PNC ( I may be history by then :'( the bucs will be gone. Probably Charlotte


If the Pirates leave town, I'll never pay another moments attention to baseball.
When I see quotes like the one from Doc I believe there is passion for baseball in Pittsburgh. Give this area a winning team, and the fans will be there. I have said it a few times on this site, please have the players push for a salary floor in the upcoming CBA and who knows Mr Nutting may put up a for sale sign. No more 40 and 50 million dollar payrolls. Teams must spend or else there will be penalties.


What kind of penalties would you suggest?

The Phillies sign Didi Gregorius for a 3 and the White Sox sign Carlos Rodon for a .5. What say you GW and WWD?





The current standings are:



Mets - Stroman(3.5),Williams(1),May(2.5),McCann(2.5),Lindor(4.5)

--Carrascvo(3),Luchesi(1),Loup(2)................................20

Phillies - Neris(3),Alvarado(2.5.)Coonrod(0.5),Bradley(3)

--Realmuto(5),Moore(2),Gregorius(3).............................19

Blue Jays- Dolis(2),Ray(1),Chatwood(2),Yates(3),Springer(5)

--Semien(3.5),Matz(1)...............................................17.5

Padres - O'Grady(.5),Snell(4.5),Kim(1).,Darvish(4.5),Caratini(.5).

--Kim(1.5),Musgrive(2,5),Profar(2)........ 16

Yankees - Britton(3),Kuber(4.5),Taillon(2),)'Day(2),Lemahieu(4).15.5

Giants - Vosler(1),Gausman(2),Wisler(2),Desclafini(2.5).......

--Brebbia(1),Casale(2),Wood(1.5),LaStella((2.5)............14.5

Nationals - Harrison(1),Clay(1),Bell(2),Schwarber(3),Lester(2)

--Zimmerman(1),Hand(3),Avila(.5)...............................13.5

Indians - Perez(2.5),Gimenez(2),Rosario(1.5),Hernandez(2.5)

--Rosario(3.5).............................................................12

Angels-Iglesias(2).Iglesias(3),Claidio(2),Suzuki(1),Quintana(2.5)10.5

Red Sox Renfroe(2),Andriese(2),Perez(2),Richards(3),Ottavino(1).10

Asros - Gurriel(3),Baez(2.5),Brantley(3),Castro(1)......................9.5

White Sox - Lynn(4),Eaton(2.5),Hendricks(2.5),Rodon(.5)...........9.5

Rays - Zunino(2),Wacha(2),Mejia(1),Davies(3.5)........................8.5

Braves - Almonte (.5),Tomlin(2),Smyly(3),Morton(2.5)............... 8

Cardinals - Wainwrighjt(3),Arenado(5).........................................8

Royals - Minor(2.5),Taylor(1),Holland(3.5)...................................7

Mariners - Graveman(1),Flexen(2),Montero(2),Hernandez(2)..........7

Dodgers Knebel(1),Kahnle(2.5),Treinen(3)................................6.5

Rangers -,Gotto(.5),Dunning(1.5),Lowe(1),Dahl(3),Arihara(.5).....6.5

Marlins - Marte(3),Detwiler(1.5),Bass(2)...................................6.5

Tigers - Urena(1),Grossman(2),Ramos(2)....................................5

Orioles - Iglesias(2.5),Galvis(2)................................................4.5

Cubs - Rizzo(3),Romine(1),Stewart(.5)......................................4.5

Reds - Hoffman-(.5),Ramirez(1.5),Garcia(.5),Perez(1).................3.5

Twins - Simmons(3.5)..............................................................3.5

Rockies - Stephenson(.5),Gomber(2).........................................2.5

Diamondbacks - Kelly(2)............................................................2

Brewers - Maile(.5),Robertson(1)..............................................1.5



Meantime, Cherington collects his end of January paycheck and does nothing to earn it.

666A6B3039303835322D37000 wrote: Arenado is one of my favorite players and it's great that I'll be able to see more of him now that he's in the division.  But I'm so frustrated that the Pirates, under this owner, never make moves like this, not because Nutting doesn't have the money, but because he refuses to use it in this fashion. 



It just further erodes my interest in major league baseball.  He's not going to change, he showed that after 2015.  Either MLB has to change by creating equity among the franchises (and I see little incentive for the owners to do that as they're all profitable), or Nutting has to either sell or be forced out.  I don't see that happening, either.  It's a terrible feeling being a Pirates fan knowing this is our lot, and will be for years and years to come.


I have a feeling that after 2030, when the lease runs out at PNC ( I may be history by then :'( the bucs will be gone. Probably Charlotte


If the Pirates leave town, I'll never pay another moments attention to baseball.
When I see quotes like the one from Doc I believe there is passion for baseball in Pittsburgh. Give this area a winning team, and the fans will be there. I have said it a few times on this site, please have the players push for a salary floor in the upcoming CBA and who knows Mr Nutting may put up a for sale sign. No more 40 and 50 million dollar payrolls. Teams must spend or else there will be penalties.


All of us have a passion for the Pirates. We stayed with them through 20 straight years of losing. If that's not passion, what is? I could no more root for another team than I could move to another country.



What I'd like to see is this:

1. Determine the percentage of MLB revenue that goes to player payroll.



2. Each team then contributes into a payroll pot based upon how much each team earns of MLB's total revenue. For example, if the Yankees revenue equals 17% of all MLB revenues, they contribute 17% of the money in the payroll pot.



3. Divide the money in the payroll pot equally among the 30 teams. All of that money is designated solely to player payroll and must be spent in total or the team must deposit what remains in the players' pension fund. It cannot be kept by the club.



4. At the Trade Deadline, teams can add or subtract from payroll up to, say, $10 million.



That seems fair and equitable to me. It also spreads out the talent as the best players can't all go to a handful of teams.

7D43464E5D45454E6E4B5C4F182A0 wrote: Arenado is one of my favorite players and it's great that I'll be able to see more of him now that he's in the division.  But I'm so frustrated that the Pirates, under this owner, never make moves like this, not because Nutting doesn't have the money, but because he refuses to use it in this fashion. 



It just further erodes my interest in major league baseball.  He's not going to change, he showed that after 2015.  Either MLB has to change by creating equity among the franchises (and I see little incentive for the owners to do that as they're all profitable), or Nutting has to either sell or be forced out.  I don't see that happening, either.  It's a terrible feeling being a Pirates fan knowing this is our lot, and will be for years and years to come.


I have a feeling that after 2030, when the lease runs out at PNC ( I may be history by then :'( the bucs will be gone. Probably Charlotte


If the Pirates leave town, I'll never pay another moments attention to baseball.
When I see quotes like the one from Doc I believe there is passion for baseball in Pittsburgh. Give this area a winning team, and the fans will be there. I have said it a few times on this site, please have the players push for a salary floor in the upcoming CBA and who knows Mr Nutting may put up a for sale sign. No more 40 and 50 million dollar payrolls. Teams must spend or else there will be penalties.


What kind of penalties would you suggest?
Reduced revenue sharing money, as well as a reduced amount to spend on draft choices. They could take away draft choices, but if you reduce the spending amount, the team will probably be unable to sign as many college or high school players, so by reducing the amount to spend, it works similar to the removal of draft choices.

3B37366D646D65686F706A5D0 wrote: Arenado is one of my favorite players and it's great that I'll be able to see more of him now that he's in the division.  But I'm so frustrated that the Pirates, under this owner, never make moves like this, not because Nutting doesn't have the money, but because he refuses to use it in this fashion. 



It just further erodes my interest in major league baseball.  He's not going to change, he showed that after 2015.  Either MLB has to change by creating equity among the franchises (and I see little incentive for the owners to do that as they're all profitable), or Nutting has to either sell or be forced out.  I don't see that happening, either.  It's a terrible feeling being a Pirates fan knowing this is our lot, and will be for years and years to come.


I have a feeling that after 2030, when the lease runs out at PNC ( I may be history by then :'( the bucs will be gone. Probably Charlotte


If the Pirates leave town, I'll never pay another moments attention to baseball.
When I see quotes like the one from Doc I believe there is passion for baseball in Pittsburgh. Give this area a winning team, and the fans will be there. I have said it a few times on this site, please have the players push for a salary floor in the upcoming CBA and who knows Mr Nutting may put up a for sale sign. No more 40 and 50 million dollar payrolls. Teams must spend or else there will be penalties.


What kind of penalties would you suggest?
Reduced revenue sharing money, as well as a reduced amount to spend on draft choices. They could take away draft choices, but if you reduce the spending amount, the team will probably be unable to sign as many college or high school players, so by reducing the amount to spend, it works similar to the removal of draft choices.








sounds good to me!

79626F6E676B640A0 wrote: The Phillies sign Didi Gregorius for a 3 and the White Sox sign Carlos Rodon for a .5.  What say you GW and WWD?





The current standings are:



Mets - Stroman(3.5),Williams(1),May(2.5),McCann(2.5),Lindor(4.5)

--Carrascvo(3),Luchesi(1),Loup(2)................................20

Phillies - Neris(3),Alvarado(2.5.)Coonrod(0.5),Bradley(3)

--Realmuto(5),Moore(2),Gregorius(3).............................19

Blue Jays- Dolis(2),Ray(1),Chatwood(2),Yates(3),Springer(5)

--Semien(3.5),Matz(1)...............................................17.5

Padres - O'Grady(.5),Snell(4.5),Kim(1).,Darvish(4.5),Caratini(.5).

--Kim(1.5),Musgrive(2,5),Profar(2)........                         16

Yankees - Britton(3),Kuber(4.5),Taillon(2),)'Day(2),Lemahieu(4).15.5

Giants - Vosler(1),Gausman(2),Wisler(2),Desclafini(2.5).......

--Brebbia(1),Casale(2),Wood(1.5),LaStella((2.5)............14.5

Nationals - Harrison(1),Clay(1),Bell(2),Schwarber(3),Lester(2)

--Zimmerman(1),Hand(3),Avila(.5)...............................13.5

Indians - Perez(2.5),Gimenez(2),Rosario(1.5),Hernandez(2.5)

--Rosario(3.5).............................................................12

Angels-Iglesias(2).Iglesias(3),Claidio(2),Suzuki(1),Quintana(2.5)10.5

Red Sox  Renfroe(2),Andriese(2),Perez(2),Richards(3),Ottavino(1).10

Asros - Gurriel(3),Baez(2.5),Brantley(3),Castro(1)......................9.5

White Sox - Lynn(4),Eaton(2.5),Hendricks(2.5),Rodon(.5)...........9.5

Rays - Zunino(2),Wacha(2),Mejia(1),Davies(3.5)........................8.5

Braves - Almonte (.5),Tomlin(2),Smyly(3),Morton(2.5)...............  8

Cardinals - Wainwrighjt(3),Arenado(5).........................................8

Royals - Minor(2.5),Taylor(1),Holland(3.5)...................................7

Mariners - Graveman(1),Flexen(2),Montero(2),Hernandez(2)..........7

Dodgers  Knebel(1),Kahnle(2.5),Treinen(3)................................6.5

Rangers -,Gotto(.5),Dunning(1.5),Lowe(1),Dahl(3),Arihara(.5).....6.5

Marlins - Marte(3),Detwiler(1.5),Bass(2)...................................6.5

Tigers - Urena(1),Grossman(2),Ramos(2)....................................5

Orioles - Iglesias(2.5),Galvis(2)................................................4.5

Cubs - Rizzo(3),Romine(1),Stewart(.5)......................................4.5

Reds - Hoffman-(.5),Ramirez(1.5),Garcia(.5),Perez(1).................3.5

Twins - Simmons(3.5)..............................................................3.5

Rockies - Stephenson(.5),Gomber(2).........................................2.5

Diamondbacks - Kelly(2)............................................................2

Brewers - Maile(.5),Robertson(1)..............................................1.5



Meantime, Cherington collects his end of January paycheck and does nothing to earn it.




Didi- 3.5

Rodon- .5