OnlyBucs

083A36362210333A37323D3A5B0 wrote: I don't care how much the guy costs. 
I'm saying it's real easy to talk a good game.  If Neal was serious then that means there's an extra $22.5M floating around.  That would at least let them make some serious upgrades.  If that happens, I'm all in. 



If he dinks and dunks with Ryan Vogelsong's of MLB, spends $5M and rolls out the same team basically, then he was doing nothing but talk all along. 



spend the $22.5M or blow it up.



This is not simply discontent of a discontent fan.  Neal has set this bar by his comments.  So spend the money.  Or blow it up.




Yes and no.  I do think that every team (or corporation, or family, or individual) has an emergency fund held back that they absolutely won't touch unless something comes up.  But I can't imagine that that would take them to that point.  And I don't know that a good 3B will cost them 22MM anyhow.


Fair point, but if that's the case, all the more reason to say nothing.  There is no way he can throw his comments out there and not raise expectations....or be accused of blowing smoke.



EDIT



I should add - If they are serious about contending, they need a 3rd base, a bigger bat in the outfield and a front line pitcher.  They can spend $22M in a heart beat and still be looking to up grade.



But I would be congratulating the organization for making a serious move.




Yeah, I said early on that we need a real 3B, a fourth OF and a starter.  I wouldn't even say front-liner, but better.  Third is the must though as I could see cases where we could be better with internal improvement at the other spots than anything we could get on the market. 



(It wouldn't even be that costly to just get a guy that can catch a pop fly . . . how can you not address that need all season???  But I digress.)



It could indeed cost that much for all of those thigns or it could take some shuffling.  Whichever. 




The only place I disagree is the OF - I'd love to see Polanco or Marte moved for prospects and the Pirates spend money to bring in a big bat.



In order of preference:

3rd base

Big bat

Starting Pitcher.

If there really is money floating around, maybe they could do #1 and #2. Then we could pray about the rotation and who knows: maybe this is a team that could compete.

6F424F5E59485F1F1C2D0 wrote: We all know the Pirates had no realistic shot at landing Ohtani. But let's say for the sake of argument they got him due to NH's pitch. How does that automatically mean they had an extra 20 million to spend on payroll? How do we know they wouldn't have compensated by reducing payroll? For example, they could trade Cutch (14.5 mil) and Harrison (10.2 mil) for prospects? They would have paid 2.3 mil to Ohtani, 20 mil to his team and saved a net of 2.4 mil. This notion that a pitch for Ohtani means they had an extra 20 mil to spend is pure fantasy. I'm as critical of Pirates' mgt as anyone but there's no way to interpret a failure to increase payroll by 20 million as proof of NH lying about wanting Ohtani.


True.



But in my fantasy world, I wake up from a nightmare and discover the Pirates really do have $125M to spend. 



But you're probably correct.....rats.



EDIT

When Neal said the Pirates were all in on Ohtani I knew they have no chance to sign him. But I do think, "but for the same amount of money the team can upgrade significantly". If Neal was not talking about new money, he really should have said nothing.

202B232F2A2B307573043D252C2B2B6A272B440 wrote: I agree with this. I think NH was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position. That said, I still believe in being a man or woman of your word, which is part of being a person of integrity. And, NH said, they are going to do all they could to sign Ohtani. "All they could" includes earmarking $20 million for his posting fee.



Look...I don't care if they spend the money or not. I've been vocal since about August that it's time to blow it up. Trade everybody. Go the Astros route. If they have a payroll of $30 million next year, I won't care. Just don't go half way...either all in, or all out. All in means upgrading third base at a minimum. Probably catcher, maybe short, the bullpen. Apparently, they have $20 million with which to do that. But, if they aren't all in, meaning they aren't willing to pay that money to upgrade, then start the fire sale, because as it sits now, this is at best a 75 win team.


Yeah, being in between like we are is the worst place to be.  If there's no new third baseman (which still might not be enough, who knows), no point in keeping stuff together.




$22.5M.  That's the test.  If payroll doesn't increase by that amount then we can know that Neal tossed the media and fans a $22.5M lie.


Why? 



So, you just want them to spend money just to spend money?  Four Daniel Hudsons would make you happy?



Who do you think should be replaced?  At this point, seven positions are filled (Mercer, Harrison, Bell, Cervelli, Marte, McCutchen, Polanco), three bench spots are taken (Freese, Rodriguez, Diaz) and the rotation is set (Cole, Nova, Taillon, Kuhl, Williams).   




Ok. Just because seven positions are filled, doesn't mean they can't upgrade. Off the top of my head, I could see potential upgrades at the following positions:



1. 3B-should go without saying

2. SS-Mercer is a decent shortstop, but looking around MLB, there are a lot of elite shortstops out there. I realize they aren't getting Correa. But is an upgrade available? A reasonable person would at least kick the tires.

3. C-Cervelli had a career year in 2015. He's been mediocre since. He's been below average in throwing out runners. And that's when he's healthy. Certainly we could upgrade behind the plate.

4. LF-Marte has never really lived up to the hype

5. CF-Cutch is still good. Is he elite? Probably not. Can we upgrade? Maybe.

6. RF-Polanco has been a disappointment thus far in his career.



Bullpen? Plenty of places to upgrade there.



Rotation? I'm content with the rotation, but there are a myriad of guys who could slot into our rotation.



In short, I see plenty of areas where upgrades are warranted and justified. NH needs to make a decision. All in, or all out, because sitting on the fence is an incredibly uncomfortable position to be in.

I agree that the Pirates don't have the best player at any position and can be upgraded at every position, but we now that won't happen. That doesn't happen for many teams. I don't think the Pirates have many below average players either.



A team full of above average, no super stars can win and do. The Pirates have players locked up. I just don't see many changes or additions outside the bullpen and hopefully third base. The Pirates are at a crossroad. They have young guys who can probably fill in too.

Below average- without looking up any numbers to verify, I'd say we are below average at third, short, right, and possibly catcher depending on the health of Cervelli and who his backup ends up being.  The other half of the question is where are we significantly above average?  Nowhere.  First base this year, maybe.  Left, possibly, if Marte is still the old Marte sans peds. 

696C6B6D656F766B6271777A030 wrote: Below average- without looking up any numbers to verify, I'd say we are below average at third, short, right, and possibly catcher depending on the health of Cervelli and who his backup ends up being.  The other half of the question is where are we significantly above average?  Nowhere.  First base this year, maybe.  Left, possibly, if Marte is still the old Marte sans peds. 


I guess we have to determine what average is and how to weigh in the injured players. And need to determine what "significantly" above average is too.



If Huntington feels he has starting players who are average or below average, then he should replace them. That is his job.

I don't know, it seems like having an average player at every position is a ticket to 78 wins.

The Bucs need more players from Lake Woebegone

Of course the have 20 million dollars. It's a one time posting fee, not an annual salary.



I guarantee you the org ran in the black more than 20 mil per for at least 2 of the 3 years we were breaking attendance records while keeping payroll 26th in baseball.



The idea that they don't have 20 million and couldn't push payroll to 120-125 for a single season is absurd and the result of a fanbase beaten down, held hostage, and suffering from Stockholm syndrome.



It's not the fans fault. They are the hostages. They've been conditioned to think this way

Every team has the posting fee. Every team is getting $50M from the Disney purchase of Bamtech. The posting fee is a non-issue.