OnlyBucs

022E26212A0D3A2C3C4F0 wrote: I know it is only August and that there are 40 or so games left in the season, but where do you think the starting rotation is for next year?  And, in thinking about the rotation, how to you go a minimum of 7 - 8 deep, seeing as 12 or so different pitchers have started a game for the Bucs this year (and also recognizing what has happened to staff's such as the Dodgers who have been ravaged by injuries).



Tallion and Kuhl are both looking like real additions to the starting rotation, and Cole clearly is a member, so 3 of the spots could be spoken for.



But, Glasnow, at best, likely is a June addition.   And Kingham likely will not yet be ready to go.



Do you put any stock in Hutchinson, despite his poor initial results?   



Brault, Duncan, and other current AAA pitchers; perhaps depth at best.



If he continues to pitch well through the end of the season, do you actually consider bringing Vogelsong back on a 1 year deal? 



If he pitches well - do you reach out to Nova on a deal?



Do you go the free agent route, even though there doesn't appear to be much available, which means that the pitchers who will be available will be very expensive.



And, if you go the trade route, who do you consider trading?   In my opinion, there isn't much on the current major league roster in the way of position players to trade unless you consider the following:



Trading McCutcheon and replacing him with either Bell or Meadows.



Trading Cervelli and going with a catching tandem of Diaz and Fryer, even though that would necessitate loading up on AAAA catchers in AAA (think Kratz territory).



Trading a good reliever, like Watson or Rivero, as part of a package for a good starter.



Potentially moving J Harrison, who may interest some teams because of his versatility and contract.



Oh well ---- Will try to keep focused on this season, but the last 4 losses have really taken some luster off the team's chances, particularly with another trip to Milwaukee on the horizon.       







 


I think Cole, Taillon and Kuhl are in. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Pirates bring Vogelsong back for one more year.



As for Nova I'd say that the Pirates will be evaluating his remaining starts with an eye toward a re-signing. If he's even average I think they'll try to sign him rather than pursue someone else in the underwhelming upcoming class of FA starting pitchers.



Glasnow is clearly a work in progress and I think he's got almost no chance to be in the starting rotation until he's shown significant improvement of his control, development of his changeup, and a slide step delivery to help control the running game.



Kingham looks to be on the same path next year that Taillon was on this year. Coming back from TJ surgery I would think if he's pitching well he could be MLB ready as early as June, but it's a long shot.



I think Hutchison will be given a chance to make the rotation in spring training if for no other reason than to save face for the organization. I'd be surprised if he makes the team as anything other than a long reliever, and more likely is seen as needing more 'seasoning' at AAA.



I think Brault has a decent chance of making the rotation. Being a lefty will give him an advantage plus he didn't embarrass himself in the couple of starts he made this year.



Frank Duncan and Trevor Williams are acquitting themselves well enough at AAA that they might get a look. If one or both impress in spring training they could end up in the mix.



As for the Pirates using McCutchon, Cervelli, or Harrison as part of a deal for a starting pitcher I think it's possible but very unlikely. I don't think there's any chance that they trade Rivero or Watson.



That's how I think things might unfold, but there's a really good chance for everything to work out much differently. Might be an exercise in futility but it does get ones mind off of the Pirates current homestand.

This team needs some significant tinkering. We have the pieces to get creative and bold and the possibility for a great team.



Move Cole, Marte, and Harrison for a 1st base (Wil Myers?) and a starter (??). Move Bell to LF and Frazer to 2nd. Add some top prospects to AA.



Move some valuable pieces to make a better team.

That is not tinkering. That is an overhaul.

444F474B4E4F541117605941484F4F0E434F200 wrote: That is not tinkering.  That is an overhaul.






Yeah, maybe. But I want to win a WS and this team is proving to have too many parts that simply don't seem to work together.



Why waste Bell at 1st. He's going to be very good at the plate, get him back to his true position. Frazer looks like a natural lead off guy, something we lack. Cole's going to start getting expensive for the Pirates compared to his performance. But he'll be a cheap upgrade on a lot of staffs. Cole, Marte and Harrison would command a team-altering return.



If nothing else, this year should illustrate to everyone that having a legitimate opportunity to win is a rare occurrence, and when it comes you need to take care of it. I'm simply proposing that the Pirates finally take care of the needs they have. I think they can do so dealing areas of depth/strength.

Bell can not replace a former MVP at this stage in his career. Cole is one of the best young starters in all of baseball. I am not high on Harrison, but he is a proven commodity compared to his replacement.



You are just shuffling chairs around. The question mark is 1B. If you trade your CF for a 1B, then you have the question mark in the OF. You will also weaken LF as I assume you want to move Marte to CF.



Trading Cole is bad too. He is cheap, many years of control, and is a very good pitcher. But you want to replace him with the same type of player? I don't get that.



I don't mind Bell at 1B.



The team is built for 2017. They need to sign or trade for a Starter. Get another Bullpen arm. Sign Mercer. Sign a back up outfielder. Glasnow will be the June call up (like Cole, Taillon). That would be my plan. I also think that is the Pirates' plan.

Not Cutch, Marte. Marte has a ton of value but we have to use our resources, at some point, to improve the entire team. Marte is really good, but he takes too many plays off. Get Bell into the OF and get a stud 1st base like Myers.



Cole - he's got great value now. He's no better, actually he's not as good, as the young guys we've got and that are coming. Trade him at a time when he has a ton of value left in service.



Only Pittsburgh would think Harrison's contract is bad. He'll have value on the mkt. I love JHay, but we need a lead off and Frazer is our best bet. Clear space for new players that can make the team better. And create the opportunity to add REAL value (no more Jaso's).



We can go into next season with the same team. There is reason to believe we'll get the same results.

6C6B7D757B6C2B275E79737F7772307D71731E0 wrote: Not Cutch, Marte.  Marte has a ton of value but we have to use our resources, at some point, to improve the entire team.  Marte is really good, but he takes too many plays off.  Get Bell into the OF and get a stud 1st base like Myers.



Cole - he's got great value now.  He's no better, actually he's not as good, as the young guys we've got and that are coming.  Trade him at a time when he has a ton of value left in service. 



Only Pittsburgh would think Harrison's contract is bad.  He'll have value on the mkt.  I love JHay, but we need a lead off and Frazer is our best bet. Clear space for new players that can make the team better.  And create the opportunity to add REAL value (no more Jaso's). 



We can go into next season with the same team.  There is reason to believe we'll get the same results. 


We can disagree. I don't think any of this should or will happen. There is no reason to trade the current pieces. The Pirates need to add a few players, that is all.



Bell will replace Jaso. Many young arms to fill out the rotation. The outfield is the best in baseball.



They just need one more solid pitcher (free agent/trade) and a few Bullpen pitchers. You are also assuming teams will trade their best players (why didn't Myers go at the deadline?).

060D05090C0D165355221B030A0D0D4C010D620 wrote: Not Cutch, Marte.  Marte has a ton of value but we have to use our resources, at some point, to improve the entire team.  Marte is really good, but he takes too many plays off.  Get Bell into the OF and get a stud 1st base like Myers.



Cole - he's got great value now.  He's no better, actually he's not as good, as the young guys we've got and that are coming.  Trade him at a time when he has a ton of value left in service. 



Only Pittsburgh would think Harrison's contract is bad.  He'll have value on the mkt.  I love JHay, but we need a lead off and Frazer is our best bet. Clear space for new players that can make the team better.  And create the opportunity to add REAL value (no more Jaso's). 



We can go into next season with the same team.  There is reason to believe we'll get the same results. 


We can disagree.  I don't think any of this should or will happen.  There is no reason to trade the current pieces.  The Pirates need to add a few players, that is all.



Bell will replace Jaso.  Many young arms to fill out the rotation.  The outfield is the best in baseball. 



They just need one more solid pitcher (free agent/trade) and a few Bullpen pitchers.  You are also assuming teams will trade their best players (why didn't Myers go at the deadline?). 




Right, we can and do disagree on this, but let me use one illustration to emphasize my point:



Last year the Pirates won 98 games but were not content to bring the same team back. They moved pieces on a great team. But we're suppose to sit on basically a .500 team this year? Why? THIS is the team Neal needs to deal with. I'm not content to bring back a .500 team that needs to be A LOT better next year in order to contend. I think this team can be fixed, but it does need fixing.

The 98 team did lose tow big bats. They wanted to be better and thought Harrison and Jaso were better. Turns out, that might have been a mistake.



You want to do that again. You want to move big pieces, but this time with no real replacement (Bell). Didn't we learn not to do that? Didn't we learn that was a bad move?



Where would this team be with Alvarez and Walker? I don't know. We will never know. Many on this board also thought Harrison and Jaso were better. I was not one of them, just to let you know.

7A71797570716A2F295E677F767171307D711E0 wrote: The 98 team did lose tow big bats.  They wanted to be better and thought Harrison and Jaso were better.  Turns out, that might have been a mistake. 



You want to do that again.  You want to move big pieces, but this time with no real replacement (Bell).  Didn't we learn not to do that?  Didn't we learn that was a bad move?



Where would this team be with Alvarez and Walker?  I don't know.  We will never know.  Many on this board also thought Harrison and Jaso were better.  I was not one of them, just to let you know.


I was very disappointed that Walker was traded. I wanted Neil at 1st.