I'd rather trade for somebody better than Nova for a #2 in the rotation. If NH has a momentary loss of sanity I'd also like to sign Nova to 2yr/$20M contract and maybe up to 3yr/$30M if necessary.
Assuming Cole is your #1, trade guy #2, Nova #3, Taillon #4, best of Kuhl, Glasnow, Brault, Williams, Hutchison, et al at #5.
How Far Do You Stretch To Retain Nova
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
How Far Do You Stretch To Retain Nova
705C5453587F485E4E3D0 wrote: Just like in 2015 when the Bucs acquired a pitcher in which few were interested in Happ, who went on to have some of the best 2 months of any pitcher acquired at the deadline, the Bucs this year acquired Nova who similarly drew little interest and who has gone on to post some of the best numbers of any pitcher acquired at the deadline. Two complete games in 7 starts is a season worth for the Pirates and many other teams.
I make note of this because many are quick to criticize NH. Two great deadline deals in 2 years when no one - read no one - was giving any fanfare of either of the moves. And, Nova's value next year, like Happ's this past off-season, were all a product of them joining the Pirates and then performing after they got here.
So --- my thoughts on Nova Last year, I stated that I would not go beyond 3 years and $30 mil for Happ, and hoped that they could do a 2 year deal with an option. After looking at what free agent pitchers commanded last year, and recognizing that this year's crop of free agent pitchers is really bad, I believe Nova is in for a big payday.
While the Pirates have little margin for error, and do need to completely rebuild their bullpen for next year, after watching him pitch 2 complete games with low pitch counts and walking nearly no one, I believe the Bucs should be aggressive in pursuing Nova. While Happ was very good last year, he was a 6 inning pitcher. Next year the Bucs likely will have a very young staff and one that often doesn't go deep into a game. In short, Nova could have an exaggerated value to the Bucs simply by helping to save innings for the pen. He also is only 29.
Thus, I offer 3 years at $13 mil per year, and an option for year 4, with a $2,000,000 buy-out. Unfortunately, they may not even be enough when qualifying offers are topping $15 mil.
keep in mind that last night Nova pitched against a very weak line up. If the Pirates really believe that Nova has turned a corner and is going to continue to pitch better than he has in his life then they should try and sign him.
I think the odds of him doing that are low which is why I would rather deal for someone with a better track record. That would probably cost more in cash and prospects/major league players than Nova but getting a true quality pitcher would be worth it.
I make note of this because many are quick to criticize NH. Two great deadline deals in 2 years when no one - read no one - was giving any fanfare of either of the moves. And, Nova's value next year, like Happ's this past off-season, were all a product of them joining the Pirates and then performing after they got here.
So --- my thoughts on Nova Last year, I stated that I would not go beyond 3 years and $30 mil for Happ, and hoped that they could do a 2 year deal with an option. After looking at what free agent pitchers commanded last year, and recognizing that this year's crop of free agent pitchers is really bad, I believe Nova is in for a big payday.
While the Pirates have little margin for error, and do need to completely rebuild their bullpen for next year, after watching him pitch 2 complete games with low pitch counts and walking nearly no one, I believe the Bucs should be aggressive in pursuing Nova. While Happ was very good last year, he was a 6 inning pitcher. Next year the Bucs likely will have a very young staff and one that often doesn't go deep into a game. In short, Nova could have an exaggerated value to the Bucs simply by helping to save innings for the pen. He also is only 29.
Thus, I offer 3 years at $13 mil per year, and an option for year 4, with a $2,000,000 buy-out. Unfortunately, they may not even be enough when qualifying offers are topping $15 mil.
keep in mind that last night Nova pitched against a very weak line up. If the Pirates really believe that Nova has turned a corner and is going to continue to pitch better than he has in his life then they should try and sign him.
I think the odds of him doing that are low which is why I would rather deal for someone with a better track record. That would probably cost more in cash and prospects/major league players than Nova but getting a true quality pitcher would be worth it.
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BucsFaninGA
How Far Do You Stretch To Retain Nova
Remember we are talking about Neal Huntington pulling off a trade. I am growing to be of the frame of mind, that Neal would rather sign pitchers on the cheap. He frankly avoids dealing prospects for proven vets. I frankly freak out just thinking of the Bucs going with Cole and then young starters next season. When will the front office realize that this team needs more depth....This year's team should be a great example of that. I think Nova is about as good as it gets with the free agents available next year. Just my two cents...
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
How Far Do You Stretch To Retain Nova
7047514174535C5B5C7573320 wrote: Remember we are talking about Neal Huntington pulling off a trade. I am growing to be of the frame of mind, that Neal would rather sign pitchers on the cheap. He frankly avoids dealing prospects for proven vets. I frankly freak out just thinking of the Bucs going with Cole and then young starters next season. When will the front office realize that this team needs more depth....This year's team should be a great example of that. I think Nova is about as good as it gets with the free agents available next year. Just my two cents...
How much would you pay to bring back Jon Niese? Assuming recovery from injury he is also about as good as it gets with the FA next year.
How much would you pay to bring back Jon Niese? Assuming recovery from injury he is also about as good as it gets with the FA next year.
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JollyRoger
- Posts: 1469
- Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:31 pm
How Far Do You Stretch To Retain Nova
587E7F687E6E1D0 wrote: Just like in 2015 when the Bucs acquired a pitcher in which few were interested in Happ, who went on to have some of the best 2 months of any pitcher acquired at the deadline, the Bucs this year acquired Nova who similarly drew little interest and who has gone on to post some of the best numbers of any pitcher acquired at the deadline. Two complete games in 7 starts is a season worth for the Pirates and many other teams.
I make note of this because many are quick to criticize NH. Two great deadline deals in 2 years when no one - read no one - was giving any fanfare of either of the moves. And, Nova's value next year, like Happ's this past off-season, were all a product of them joining the Pirates and then performing after they got here.
So --- my thoughts on Nova Last year, I stated that I would not go beyond 3 years and $30 mil for Happ, and hoped that they could do a 2 year deal with an option. After looking at what free agent pitchers commanded last year, and recognizing that this year's crop of free agent pitchers is really bad, I believe Nova is in for a big payday.
While the Pirates have little margin for error, and do need to completely rebuild their bullpen for next year, after watching him pitch 2 complete games with low pitch counts and walking nearly no one, I believe the Bucs should be aggressive in pursuing Nova. While Happ was very good last year, he was a 6 inning pitcher. Next year the Bucs likely will have a very young staff and one that often doesn't go deep into a game. In short, Nova could have an exaggerated value to the Bucs simply by helping to save innings for the pen. He also is only 29.
Thus, I offer 3 years at $13 mil per year, and an option for year 4, with a $2,000,000 buy-out. Unfortunately, they may not even be enough when qualifying offers are topping $15 mil.
keep in mind that last night Nova pitched against a very weak line up. If the Pirates really believe that Nova has turned a corner and is going to continue to pitch better than he has in his life then they should try and sign him.
I think the odds of him doing that are low which is why I would rather deal for someone with a better track record. That would probably cost more in cash and prospects/major league players than Nova but getting a true quality pitcher would be worth it.
I agree with Mainer. Great post BTW.
However look at it this way. If Nova regresses and his contract becomes an albatross; we can always trade him along with 2 of our top ten prospects to shed his salary
I make note of this because many are quick to criticize NH. Two great deadline deals in 2 years when no one - read no one - was giving any fanfare of either of the moves. And, Nova's value next year, like Happ's this past off-season, were all a product of them joining the Pirates and then performing after they got here.
So --- my thoughts on Nova Last year, I stated that I would not go beyond 3 years and $30 mil for Happ, and hoped that they could do a 2 year deal with an option. After looking at what free agent pitchers commanded last year, and recognizing that this year's crop of free agent pitchers is really bad, I believe Nova is in for a big payday.
While the Pirates have little margin for error, and do need to completely rebuild their bullpen for next year, after watching him pitch 2 complete games with low pitch counts and walking nearly no one, I believe the Bucs should be aggressive in pursuing Nova. While Happ was very good last year, he was a 6 inning pitcher. Next year the Bucs likely will have a very young staff and one that often doesn't go deep into a game. In short, Nova could have an exaggerated value to the Bucs simply by helping to save innings for the pen. He also is only 29.
Thus, I offer 3 years at $13 mil per year, and an option for year 4, with a $2,000,000 buy-out. Unfortunately, they may not even be enough when qualifying offers are topping $15 mil.
keep in mind that last night Nova pitched against a very weak line up. If the Pirates really believe that Nova has turned a corner and is going to continue to pitch better than he has in his life then they should try and sign him.
I think the odds of him doing that are low which is why I would rather deal for someone with a better track record. That would probably cost more in cash and prospects/major league players than Nova but getting a true quality pitcher would be worth it.
I agree with Mainer. Great post BTW.
However look at it this way. If Nova regresses and his contract becomes an albatross; we can always trade him along with 2 of our top ten prospects to shed his salary
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Wrathchild
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:23 pm
How Far Do You Stretch To Retain Nova
The contracts that the Pirates sign are all about perceived value. They sign long-term team-friendly deals with young players that have limited leverage and extensions with veteran players that want to stay badly enough to take a below-market deal. The Pirates aren't going to stretch for Nova. If he sees value in staying because he was suddenly successful or he loves it in Pittsburgh, like Cervelli, he'll sign a somewhat favorable looking deal and stay. If he wants to parlay his sudden success into the biggest deal he can get, like Happ, he'll go.
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CarolinaBucco
How Far Do You Stretch To Retain Nova
I don't know if NH will determine he wants to retain Nova or not. Personally I hope he does.
But my main point is this. If he decides he wants to bring Nova back, then go ahead and know and understand that you are going to have to pay market value, which essentially means you are going to have to OVERPAY to get him. Just accept reality and deal with it.
I wish the Pirates would start operating that way a bit more often. If they try to be "fiscally responsible" with Nova, then they will have no chance.
If you want the guy, and if you believe in him, then I say throw some money around and get him (after all, it's not my money).
But my main point is this. If he decides he wants to bring Nova back, then go ahead and know and understand that you are going to have to pay market value, which essentially means you are going to have to OVERPAY to get him. Just accept reality and deal with it.
I wish the Pirates would start operating that way a bit more often. If they try to be "fiscally responsible" with Nova, then they will have no chance.
If you want the guy, and if you believe in him, then I say throw some money around and get him (after all, it's not my money).
How Far Do You Stretch To Retain Nova
694C4F4F5A714C444651230 wrote: Just like in 2015 when the Bucs acquired a pitcher in which few were interested in Happ, who went on to have some of the best 2 months of any pitcher acquired at the deadline, the Bucs this year acquired Nova who similarly drew little interest and who has gone on to post some of the best numbers of any pitcher acquired at the deadline. Two complete games in 7 starts is a season worth for the Pirates and many other teams.
I make note of this because many are quick to criticize NH. Two great deadline deals in 2 years when no one - read no one - was giving any fanfare of either of the moves. And, Nova's value next year, like Happ's this past off-season, were all a product of them joining the Pirates and then performing after they got here.
So --- my thoughts on Nova Last year, I stated that I would not go beyond 3 years and $30 mil for Happ, and hoped that they could do a 2 year deal with an option. After looking at what free agent pitchers commanded last year, and recognizing that this year's crop of free agent pitchers is really bad, I believe Nova is in for a big payday.
While the Pirates have little margin for error, and do need to completely rebuild their bullpen for next year, after watching him pitch 2 complete games with low pitch counts and walking nearly no one, I believe the Bucs should be aggressive in pursuing Nova. While Happ was very good last year, he was a 6 inning pitcher. Next year the Bucs likely will have a very young staff and one that often doesn't go deep into a game. In short, Nova could have an exaggerated value to the Bucs simply by helping to save innings for the pen. He also is only 29.
Thus, I offer 3 years at $13 mil per year, and an option for year 4, with a $2,000,000 buy-out. Unfortunately, they may not even be enough when qualifying offers are topping $15 mil.
keep in mind that last night Nova pitched against a very weak line up. If the Pirates really believe that Nova has turned a corner and is going to continue to pitch better than he has in his life then they should try and sign him.
I think the odds of him doing that are low which is why I would rather deal for someone with a better track record. That would probably cost more in cash and prospects/major league players than Nova but getting a true quality pitcher would be worth it.
I agree with Mainer. Great post BTW.
However look at it this way. If Nova regresses and his contract becomes an albatross; we can always trade him along with 2 of our top ten prospects to shed his salary
When Nova was traded here this board bashed it. When the return was announced, this board bashed it. Now we want to give him 40 million over 3 years? He's had 5 good starts for us. Are those worth 8 million a piece.
I was against signing Happ as he had 10 good starts for us after five mediocre seasons and to me that wasn't worth 36 million dollars.
Same with Nova. He's a whole lot more likely to go Liriano next season than go Happ.
I make note of this because many are quick to criticize NH. Two great deadline deals in 2 years when no one - read no one - was giving any fanfare of either of the moves. And, Nova's value next year, like Happ's this past off-season, were all a product of them joining the Pirates and then performing after they got here.
So --- my thoughts on Nova Last year, I stated that I would not go beyond 3 years and $30 mil for Happ, and hoped that they could do a 2 year deal with an option. After looking at what free agent pitchers commanded last year, and recognizing that this year's crop of free agent pitchers is really bad, I believe Nova is in for a big payday.
While the Pirates have little margin for error, and do need to completely rebuild their bullpen for next year, after watching him pitch 2 complete games with low pitch counts and walking nearly no one, I believe the Bucs should be aggressive in pursuing Nova. While Happ was very good last year, he was a 6 inning pitcher. Next year the Bucs likely will have a very young staff and one that often doesn't go deep into a game. In short, Nova could have an exaggerated value to the Bucs simply by helping to save innings for the pen. He also is only 29.
Thus, I offer 3 years at $13 mil per year, and an option for year 4, with a $2,000,000 buy-out. Unfortunately, they may not even be enough when qualifying offers are topping $15 mil.
keep in mind that last night Nova pitched against a very weak line up. If the Pirates really believe that Nova has turned a corner and is going to continue to pitch better than he has in his life then they should try and sign him.
I think the odds of him doing that are low which is why I would rather deal for someone with a better track record. That would probably cost more in cash and prospects/major league players than Nova but getting a true quality pitcher would be worth it.
I agree with Mainer. Great post BTW.
However look at it this way. If Nova regresses and his contract becomes an albatross; we can always trade him along with 2 of our top ten prospects to shed his salary
When Nova was traded here this board bashed it. When the return was announced, this board bashed it. Now we want to give him 40 million over 3 years? He's had 5 good starts for us. Are those worth 8 million a piece.
I was against signing Happ as he had 10 good starts for us after five mediocre seasons and to me that wasn't worth 36 million dollars.
Same with Nova. He's a whole lot more likely to go Liriano next season than go Happ.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
How Far Do You Stretch To Retain Nova
0D2F3C212227202F0C3B2D2D214E0 wrote: I don't know if NH will determine he wants to retain Nova or not. Personally I hope he does.
But my main point is this. If he decides he wants to bring Nova back, then go ahead and know and understand that you are going to have to pay market value, which essentially means you are going to have to OVERPAY to get him. Just accept reality and deal with it.
I wish the Pirates would start operating that way a bit more often. If they try to be "fiscally responsible" with Nova, then they will have no chance.
If you want the guy, and if you believe in him, then I say throw some money around and get him (after all, it's not my money).
I sure hope they don't overpay. That is the worst strategy. Ask the Phillies or Reds how those bad contracts worked out for them?
But my main point is this. If he decides he wants to bring Nova back, then go ahead and know and understand that you are going to have to pay market value, which essentially means you are going to have to OVERPAY to get him. Just accept reality and deal with it.
I wish the Pirates would start operating that way a bit more often. If they try to be "fiscally responsible" with Nova, then they will have no chance.
If you want the guy, and if you believe in him, then I say throw some money around and get him (after all, it's not my money).
I sure hope they don't overpay. That is the worst strategy. Ask the Phillies or Reds how those bad contracts worked out for them?