OnlyBucs

4763777F7A160 wrote: Chris Sale is the kind of pitcher that can matchup favorably in a wildcard game facing any other team's top starter. Given that the Pirates will be playing in a division with the Cubs, I'll argue that we might be looking exclusively at a wildcard entry into the playoffs for the foreseeable future. If we can acquire a bonafide ace to our staff by giving up our two best prospects (or more) I say you've got to do it. The Chisox will not be letting Sale go for anything less than significant talent in return.


Very good point. I am leaning your way. It does make sense. Sale is very good.

How about Cutch & Kuhl for Sale? Or Cutch & Glasnow?



No way do I trade Meadows - he is Cutch's replacement and the way to keep the "window" open since we'll have him through 2023.



Getting Sale and signing Nova are my top 2 priorities this winter. Anything else is gravy.



Shore up the rotation with those 2 guys and we'll be one of the top teams in the NL again.

4E444B56445643444B250 wrote: How about Cutch & Kuhl for Sale?  Or Cutch & Glasnow?



No way do I trade Meadows - he is Cutch's replacement and the way to keep the "window" open since we'll have him through 2023.



Getting Sale and signing Nova are my top 2 priorities this winter.  Anything else is gravy.



Shore up the rotation with those 2 guys and we'll be one of the top teams in the NL again.


would you go with Cutch, Kuhl, Glasnow and Keller? Maybe Newman too. I could see the Sox going for Cutch and flipping him. From what I"ve read they will keep Sale unless they get highly rated prospects. Supposedly the Nationals are another team interested in Sale.

6F656A77657762656A040 wrote: How about Cutch & Kuhl for Sale?  Or Cutch & Glasnow?



No way do I trade Meadows - he is Cutch's replacement and the way to keep the "window" open since we'll have him through 2023.



Getting Sale and signing Nova are my top 2 priorities this winter.  Anything else is gravy.



Shore up the rotation with those 2 guys and we'll be one of the top teams in the NL again.


I'd much rather trade Cutch than Meadows but the Chisox are looking at a rebuild. Cutch probably isn't what they're looking for. I doubt if Kuhl will be seen as having the kind of upside that Glasnow has and Chicago can be choosy because they don't "need" to unload Sale.



If the Pirates can sign Nova and make a deal for Sale I'm all in for 2017 being our year (in spite of the Cubs).

Cutch, Glasnow , Rivero, Kuhl and Barrett Barnes could get it done.



I really think Cutch bounces back tho..So i hate to se him go.



But we haven`t won anything with him, so he is just a chip.



We need a kickaz rotation just like everyone else. ...lol



Sale 3 tears

Cole 3yrs

Tallion 6 yrs.



Is a start, keeps us in 2nd or 3rd in DIV.



yay

I heard the Sox wanted Glasnow, Meadows and maybe even Hayes or Newman thrown in the mix as well. This would be a bold move to make but the Pirates have to do something to improve this team and put some kind of dent in finishing 25 games behind the Cubs. Adding Sale along with Cole and Taillon and keeping the core of the lineup will make the Pirates a better team going into 2017. The Pirates at some point have to go out and sign a starting pitcher or two. Guys like Cashner and Colon who were very affordable just got signed with the Pirates making no efforts at all to sign either guy. You can't just sit back and let good pitchers who are affordable and can help you just sign with other teams. The Pirates need pitching help and they need to change this team around some going into 2017. The less action they take the worse this team will end up being.

41667773766B54607776766B120 wrote: I heard the Sox wanted Glasnow, Meadows and maybe even Hayes or Newman thrown in the mix as well. This would be a bold move to make but the Pirates have to do something to improve this team and put some kind of dent in finishing 25 games behind the Cubs. Adding Sale along with Cole and Taillon and keeping the core of the lineup will make the Pirates a better team going into 2017. The Pirates at some point have to go out and sign a starting pitcher or two. Guys like Cashner and Colon who were very affordable just got signed with the Pirates making no efforts at all to sign either guy. You can't just sit back and let good pitchers who are affordable and can help you just sign with other teams. The Pirates need pitching help and they need to change this team around some going into 2017. The less action they take the worse this team will end up being.
And how good will the team be in just a couple years when we're needing Glasnow, Meadows, Hayes or Newman to step up? We complain the Bucs don't spend money - and it's true that more money is needed - but they aren't likely to start spending money then, to fill the three vacancies via free agency that we would have had covered by solid to very good, near-league-minimum players.



I think we need that big-game ace that we sorely lack (sorry, Gerrit), but I just don't know how we're gonna do it without badly crippling the team in a couple years, or spending a big chunk of money (which doesn't seem to be in the cards). Maybe the new TV contract will bail us out at that time, letting us splurge in free agency. But then maybe we wait it out, reap the benefits of the three players we'd be trading now, and use that money for other parts, making a bigger splash.



Maybe we look at trading Cutch and Wilson - short-timers with value - to stock the minors, and make a run in 2019 or so, getting ourselves that free-agent ace pitcher at that time. . .We'd have to trust the scouting though.



Decisions, decisions, what to do. . . Kinda glad I'm not a GM ;D

0A212D2421207A774E0 wrote: I heard the Sox wanted Glasnow, Meadows and maybe even Hayes or Newman thrown in the mix as well. This would be a bold move to make but the Pirates have to do something to improve this team and put some kind of dent in finishing 25 games behind the Cubs. Adding Sale along with Cole and Taillon and keeping the core of the lineup will make the Pirates a better team going into 2017. The Pirates at some point have to go out and sign a starting pitcher or two. Guys like Cashner and Colon who were very affordable just got signed with the Pirates making no efforts at all to sign either guy. You can't just sit back and let good pitchers who are affordable and can help you just sign with other teams. The Pirates need pitching help and they need to change this team around some going into 2017. The less action they take the worse this team will end up being.
And how good will the team be in just a couple years when we're needing Glasnow, Meadows, Hayes or Newman to step up?  We complain the Bucs don't spend money - and it's true that more money is needed - but they aren't likely to start spending money then, to fill the three vacancies via free agency that we would have had covered by solid to very good, near-league-minimum players. 



I think we need that big-game ace that we sorely lack (sorry, Gerrit), but I just don't know how we're gonna do it without badly crippling the team in a couple years, or spending a big chunk of money  (which doesn't seem to be in the cards). Maybe the new TV contract will bail us out at that time, letting us splurge in free agency.  But then maybe we wait it out, reap the benefits of the three players we'd be trading now, and use that money for other parts, making a bigger splash.



Maybe we look at trading Cutch and Wilson - short-timers with value - to stock the minors, and make a run in 2019 or so, getting ourselves that free-agent ace pitcher at that time. . .We'd have to trust the scouting though.



Decisions, decisions, what to do. . . Kinda glad I'm not a GM  ;D






If Glaswnow, Meadows and Hayes and/or Newman go for Sale the Bucs would have a pretty good big three rotation for the next few years.



Meadows would leave leave the biggest hole in the farm system. There is no one like him in the system. Maybe the Bucs would have to roll the dice and spend big on international market (like they did to get Bell in the draft). Maybe they restock when they deal Cole in two ir three years. A lot depends on good the Pirates think Sale can be and what they think of Keller, Hearn and Kingham.

4E65696065643E330A0 wrote: I heard the Sox wanted Glasnow, Meadows and maybe even Hayes or Newman thrown in the mix as well. This would be a bold move to make but the Pirates have to do something to improve this team and put some kind of dent in finishing 25 games behind the Cubs. Adding Sale along with Cole and Taillon and keeping the core of the lineup will make the Pirates a better team going into 2017. The Pirates at some point have to go out and sign a starting pitcher or two. Guys like Cashner and Colon who were very affordable just got signed with the Pirates making no efforts at all to sign either guy. You can't just sit back and let good pitchers who are affordable and can help you just sign with other teams. The Pirates need pitching help and they need to change this team around some going into 2017. The less action they take the worse this team will end up being.
And how good will the team be in just a couple years when we're needing Glasnow, Meadows, Hayes or Newman to step up?  We complain the Bucs don't spend money - and it's true that more money is needed - but they aren't likely to start spending money then, to fill the three vacancies via free agency that we would have had covered by solid to very good, near-league-minimum players. 



I think we need that big-game ace that we sorely lack (sorry, Gerrit), but I just don't know how we're gonna do it without badly crippling the team in a couple years, or spending a big chunk of money  (which doesn't seem to be in the cards). Maybe the new TV contract will bail us out at that time, letting us splurge in free agency.  But then maybe we wait it out, reap the benefits of the three players we'd be trading now, and use that money for other parts, making a bigger splash.



Maybe we look at trading Cutch and Wilson - short-timers with value - to stock the minors, and make a run in 2019 or so, getting ourselves that free-agent ace pitcher at that time. . .We'd have to trust the scouting though.



Decisions, decisions, what to do. . . Kinda glad I'm not a GM  ;D




To attempt to answer that specific question one needs to look at who will be around "in a couple of years". Here are your core players signed for more than two years:



Pitchers- Cole(3), Taillon(6), Kuhl(6), Rivero(5)



Position players-Bell(6), Kang(4), Frazier(6), Cervelli(3), Marte(3), Polanco(5)



Of course this list does not include players that may become core players in the future and would be under contract beyond 2 years such as Glasnow, Meadows, Max Moroff, Alen Hanson, Elias Diaz, Jose Osuna, Gift Ngoepe, Steven Brault, Drew Hutchison, Nick Kingham...



Every team is going to need to develop prospects to fill positions and the Pirates are no exception. In two more years they're going to need to find at minimum a shortstop, an outfielder (or first baseman if Bell is moved to OF), several bullpen arms, and at least 2 starting pitchers. They may have outfield covered if Adam Frazier slots in there, but they would need to find a second baseman.



Right now Meadows looks to be the outfielder and Glasnow one of the two starting pitchers who would become core players in 2 years or more likely earlier. Trading them both in a deal for Sale would certainly be painful, but Sale would fill not only one of the starting pitching spots that Glasnow would likely fill but give the Pirates an ace for the staff. Meadows loss would be more difficult to deal with but finding a serviceable outfielder either within the organization or outside it to take Meadows place is much easier to find than a staff ace. In short filling the holes left by Glasnow and Meadows is doable. Arguably more doable than obtaining a cost controlled staff ace will ever be. However, if the Chisox want another player in addition to Glasnow and Meadows I wouldn't deal either Hayes or Newman but I'd be willing to part with just about any other prospect to make the trade.

46617074716C53677071716C150 wrote: I heard the Sox wanted Glasnow, Meadows and maybe even Hayes or Newman thrown in the mix as well. This would be a bold move to make but the Pirates have to do something to improve this team and put some kind of dent in finishing 25 games behind the Cubs. Adding Sale along with Cole and Taillon and keeping the core of the lineup will make the Pirates a better team going into 2017. The Pirates at some point have to go out and sign a starting pitcher or two. Guys like Cashner and Colon who were very affordable just got signed with the Pirates making no efforts at all to sign either guy. You can't just sit back and let good pitchers who are affordable and can help you just sign with other teams. The Pirates need pitching help and they need to change this team around some going into 2017. The less action they take the worse this team will end up being.


Where did you see or hear this asking price?



Sale is very good, but Glasnow, Meadows, and Hayes are probably the team's three best prospects. How many other teams can compete with those three?