5B767B6A6D7C6B2B28190 wrote: We have to realize that some good starting pitchers that teams would part with to obtain Cutch would come with salaries the Pirates would be unwilling to pay.
If the Pirates would be unwilling to pay Chris Sale the $12M, $12.5M, and $13.5M remaining on his 3 years then there is no hope. Pitchers of Sale's pedigree have gotten more than double that. Gio Gonzalez of the Nats has 2 years of $12M/yr remaining. The Pirates were paying Liriano that much. I haven't heard of any pitchers that would cost the Pirates more in salary than Sale or Gonzalez mentioned in conjunction with a potential Cutch deal. Who might these more costly good starting pitchers be?
It's also worth noting that trading Cutch also takes his salary off of the books so the Pirates will be saving $28M over the next two years.
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Bobster21
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496D797174180 wrote: We have to realize that some good starting pitchers that teams would part with to obtain Cutch would come with salaries the Pirates would be unwilling to pay.
If the Pirates would be unwilling to pay Chris Sale the $12M, $12.5M, and $13.5M remaining on his 3 years then there is no hope. Pitchers of Sale's pedigree have gotten more than double that. Gio Gonzalez of the Nats has 2 years of $12M/yr remaining. The Pirates were paying Liriano that much. I haven't heard of any pitchers that would cost the Pirates more in salary than Sale or Gonzalez mentioned in conjunction with a potential Cutch deal. Who might these more costly good starting pitchers be?
It's also worth noting that trading Cutch also takes his salary off of the books so the Pirates will be saving $28M over the next two years.
Good response, Quail. I wasn't trying to nail down names but you identified a few. I just wanted to remind that there will be more pitchers who would be a fair exchange for Cutch than the number the Pirates would actually consider due to salary. And if they won't consider the good and reasonably priced pitchers, then a clear message will have been sent to the fans.
If the Pirates would be unwilling to pay Chris Sale the $12M, $12.5M, and $13.5M remaining on his 3 years then there is no hope. Pitchers of Sale's pedigree have gotten more than double that. Gio Gonzalez of the Nats has 2 years of $12M/yr remaining. The Pirates were paying Liriano that much. I haven't heard of any pitchers that would cost the Pirates more in salary than Sale or Gonzalez mentioned in conjunction with a potential Cutch deal. Who might these more costly good starting pitchers be?
It's also worth noting that trading Cutch also takes his salary off of the books so the Pirates will be saving $28M over the next two years.
Good response, Quail. I wasn't trying to nail down names but you identified a few. I just wanted to remind that there will be more pitchers who would be a fair exchange for Cutch than the number the Pirates would actually consider due to salary. And if they won't consider the good and reasonably priced pitchers, then a clear message will have been sent to the fans.
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What do you mean will have been sent? How many freaking messages do the fans need?
There will always be the dognots of the world that will never, ever be disappointed, but what about the "average fan"?
Their words from just two seasons ago were all BS. They tanked the offseason and took a 98 win team to a sub .500 team. Now they're selling off.
What signs are needed?
There will always be the dognots of the world that will never, ever be disappointed, but what about the "average fan"?
Their words from just two seasons ago were all BS. They tanked the offseason and took a 98 win team to a sub .500 team. Now they're selling off.
What signs are needed?
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I'm not really sure what an 'average fan' thinks. I don't believe there are any here on this forum. This is like the Lake Wobegon of Pirate fandom where all the members are above average. 
I really enjoy the passion showed by the folks here. It's honest and real. I've been a Pirate fan for almost 60 years now (about half as long as Possum ;D). I simply can't change my allegiance to any other baseball team. The Pirates are part of my DNA, but my disappointment is reaching the critical stage with their ownership. I agree that no more messages need be sent regarding their obsession with financial flexibility. Competitiveness on the diamond is clearly a distant second in their hierarchy of concerns. Unfortunately because of my intractable attachment to the Buccos my only recourse is to vent my complaints here. Much like the grieving process each person has their own needs and means of coping. Perhaps we can all grant a little slack with how our fellow fans deal with this. In the end we all have more in common than we have differences with regards to the Pittsburgh Pirates.
I really enjoy the passion showed by the folks here. It's honest and real. I've been a Pirate fan for almost 60 years now (about half as long as Possum ;D). I simply can't change my allegiance to any other baseball team. The Pirates are part of my DNA, but my disappointment is reaching the critical stage with their ownership. I agree that no more messages need be sent regarding their obsession with financial flexibility. Competitiveness on the diamond is clearly a distant second in their hierarchy of concerns. Unfortunately because of my intractable attachment to the Buccos my only recourse is to vent my complaints here. Much like the grieving process each person has their own needs and means of coping. Perhaps we can all grant a little slack with how our fellow fans deal with this. In the end we all have more in common than we have differences with regards to the Pittsburgh Pirates.
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Bobster21
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5E575F4E403A0 wrote: What do you mean will have been sent? How many freaking messages do the fans need?
There will always be the dognots of the world that will never, ever be disappointed, but what about the "average fan"?
Their words from just two seasons ago were all BS. They tanked the offseason and took a 98 win team to a sub .500 team. Now they're selling off.
What signs are needed?
I hear ya, dmetz. I think most here know I've been accusing them of cheapness for some time now. I'm trying to be positive and give them the benefit of the doubt. All signs point to a cheap org selling off key players from a 1-year removed 98-win season on order to reduce a payroll that was already one of MLB' lowest. We still have an off season to go thru and hope it's not a repeat of last year's embarrassing off season. I've already warned that some good but higher priced pitchers they could acquire for Cutch will likely be ignored in order to save money. I desperately want to think I'm wrong. So I'm waiting to see how this off season plays out. But I can't say I'm optimistic.
There will always be the dognots of the world that will never, ever be disappointed, but what about the "average fan"?
Their words from just two seasons ago were all BS. They tanked the offseason and took a 98 win team to a sub .500 team. Now they're selling off.
What signs are needed?
I hear ya, dmetz. I think most here know I've been accusing them of cheapness for some time now. I'm trying to be positive and give them the benefit of the doubt. All signs point to a cheap org selling off key players from a 1-year removed 98-win season on order to reduce a payroll that was already one of MLB' lowest. We still have an off season to go thru and hope it's not a repeat of last year's embarrassing off season. I've already warned that some good but higher priced pitchers they could acquire for Cutch will likely be ignored in order to save money. I desperately want to think I'm wrong. So I'm waiting to see how this off season plays out. But I can't say I'm optimistic.