Maybe. We could win from 70-95 games. I have no idea what this team will do.
I don't know if I love or hate that we are missing six regulars to the WBC and the law.
Is it good that they are getting work in with other good players (not Kane) and the young guys are playing everyday?
Or is chemistry and bonding going to be affected?
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
795B48555653545B784F5959553A0 wrote: There's a lot I like about this team, but there are 2 (major) factors that I believe will ultimately catch up with this team and derail their playoff plans:
1. Not nearly enough starting pitching depth. Not even close. You know at least one of our guys will underachieve significantly, and at least one will get hurt. I still believe NH needed to sign 1 or ideally 2 starters in the No. 3/No. 4 caliber range. That decision will come back to haunt us.
2. Lack of power. And literally no power on the bench. Not enough attention is being paid to the fact that we lost a boatload of power with the losses of Joyce & S-Rod, and they have not been replaced. Where is this team going to make up that loss?
1. Who? Who were they supposed to get? Who are they supposed to get? I get your response, but as a person actually looks at their long list of SPs that are on the rosters, they have a three proven guys. One guy (Kuhl) with only success in the minors and a very successful rookie MLB season. Then they have arguably the top prospect in baseball, a guy who they have reworked his delivery and has had bits of MLB success (Hutchison), and a lefty in Brault who looks like he can solidly fill the 5 spot. I'm not a fan of Trevor Williams, but he can make a spot start if someone gets hurt. And that is exactly what you want of the 8th guy. All of those players are ready to hit the majors.
2. Regarding bench power, I will just say that no one expected the power we got out of Joyce and S-Rod last year. It's the bench, you aren't looking for significant contributors. The team will win or lose based on the 8 guys (and Freese) penciled in to start regularly.
1. Not nearly enough starting pitching depth. Not even close. You know at least one of our guys will underachieve significantly, and at least one will get hurt. I still believe NH needed to sign 1 or ideally 2 starters in the No. 3/No. 4 caliber range. That decision will come back to haunt us.
2. Lack of power. And literally no power on the bench. Not enough attention is being paid to the fact that we lost a boatload of power with the losses of Joyce & S-Rod, and they have not been replaced. Where is this team going to make up that loss?
1. Who? Who were they supposed to get? Who are they supposed to get? I get your response, but as a person actually looks at their long list of SPs that are on the rosters, they have a three proven guys. One guy (Kuhl) with only success in the minors and a very successful rookie MLB season. Then they have arguably the top prospect in baseball, a guy who they have reworked his delivery and has had bits of MLB success (Hutchison), and a lefty in Brault who looks like he can solidly fill the 5 spot. I'm not a fan of Trevor Williams, but he can make a spot start if someone gets hurt. And that is exactly what you want of the 8th guy. All of those players are ready to hit the majors.
2. Regarding bench power, I will just say that no one expected the power we got out of Joyce and S-Rod last year. It's the bench, you aren't looking for significant contributors. The team will win or lose based on the 8 guys (and Freese) penciled in to start regularly.
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OrlandoMerced
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
The big move for 2017 that the Pirates failed to make was to trade for Quintana. It seems likely that the Sox were asking for Meadows and Glasnow, and in the long run it looks like the Pirates were wise to walk away from that. I still feel like it's the White Sox that screwed themselves here, the Pirates have the best top 5 prospect group in the MLB. I'm sure there was a combo of guys there that the Pirates would have parted for that didn't include numbers 1 &2.
I'm also on the optimistic side for 2017. The Pirates got Glasnow, Taillion, Kuhl, Brault and Williams all a taste of the majors. That's a benefit for teams that are out of contention, they are able to give their AAA guys valuable MLB experience. Unfortunately there is a rather thin line for this team to compete for the WS. If McCutchen comes back and the pirates get 85-90 starts from Cole, Taillon and Nova, they will be in the playoffs. The only way they can manage another McCutchen down year and injuries at the top of the rotation would be large jumps from internal prospects. Glasnow, Kingham or Brault could potentially emerge and provide depth and production. If Meadows, Bell and Polanco continue to take steps forward, they would make up for any further decline in production from McCutchen.
These don't seem like unfeasible scenarios.
I'm also on the optimistic side for 2017. The Pirates got Glasnow, Taillion, Kuhl, Brault and Williams all a taste of the majors. That's a benefit for teams that are out of contention, they are able to give their AAA guys valuable MLB experience. Unfortunately there is a rather thin line for this team to compete for the WS. If McCutchen comes back and the pirates get 85-90 starts from Cole, Taillon and Nova, they will be in the playoffs. The only way they can manage another McCutchen down year and injuries at the top of the rotation would be large jumps from internal prospects. Glasnow, Kingham or Brault could potentially emerge and provide depth and production. If Meadows, Bell and Polanco continue to take steps forward, they would make up for any further decline in production from McCutchen.
These don't seem like unfeasible scenarios.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
I thought Nova was a top pitching free agent. Did that go away because the Pirates signed him?
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
3239313D3839226761162F373E3939783539560 wrote: I thought Nova was a top pitching free agent. Did that go away because the Pirates signed him?
I think he was a decent signing in a fairly crummy free agent class.
I think he was a decent signing in a fairly crummy free agent class.
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
I am still ambivalent on what to expect for this season. Some guys will improve over last year but it is almost inevitable that some will decline. That being said if pitching comes thru, Kang can play 140 games and cutch rebounds the Buds should contend. While closer is over rated by fans it does seem like some pitchers just can't do it effectively. Hoping Pirates get that resolved without blowing saves.
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SteadyFreddy
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
282F39313F286F631A3D373B3336743935375A0 wrote: I absolutely agree that this could be a special year (which is why it's so frustrating that they won....never mind, I'm not going back down this path).
If Kang is in the line up fairly soon, I REALLY like the line up a lot. The bench can't be as strong as last year, but Jason and Freese give some nice depth.
The rotation is the BIG Q. Ifs all over the place. I'm pleasantly surprised by the pitching this spring, including the AAA guys and also Holmes. But it's only spring...
IF the top three in the rotation can pitch to expectations and if Glasnow could come in mid-season and be dominate then I think this is a team capable of hanging close to the Cubs. If the Cubs win 100+ again, they win going away. But if the Cubs win more like 95 I think the Pirates could make it interesting.
The best way to get the Cubs to 95? The Pirates need to beat the Cubs. Last year the Pirates helped the Cubs tremendously by losing 15 of 19 games. If the Pirates can go 9-9 this year the Pirates have a shot. I don't think they can compete with the Cubs for the division I just don't see it VA. Keep in mind they finished 25 games behind the Cubs in the division last season. That is a lot of ground to make up. I do think they can compete for both the 1st and 2nd wildcard spots and I like their chances of competing for one of those for most of the season as long as they can stay healthy and have no major injuries. If Glasnow can come in and pitch like the dominant guy we have seen him be in the Minors that changes a lot of things. I think the rotation with Cole,Taillon ,and Nova at the top will be okay and this offense is going to score runs. They should be in the running come September for a playoff spot.
If Kang is in the line up fairly soon, I REALLY like the line up a lot. The bench can't be as strong as last year, but Jason and Freese give some nice depth.
The rotation is the BIG Q. Ifs all over the place. I'm pleasantly surprised by the pitching this spring, including the AAA guys and also Holmes. But it's only spring...
IF the top three in the rotation can pitch to expectations and if Glasnow could come in mid-season and be dominate then I think this is a team capable of hanging close to the Cubs. If the Cubs win 100+ again, they win going away. But if the Cubs win more like 95 I think the Pirates could make it interesting.
The best way to get the Cubs to 95? The Pirates need to beat the Cubs. Last year the Pirates helped the Cubs tremendously by losing 15 of 19 games. If the Pirates can go 9-9 this year the Pirates have a shot. I don't think they can compete with the Cubs for the division I just don't see it VA. Keep in mind they finished 25 games behind the Cubs in the division last season. That is a lot of ground to make up. I do think they can compete for both the 1st and 2nd wildcard spots and I like their chances of competing for one of those for most of the season as long as they can stay healthy and have no major injuries. If Glasnow can come in and pitch like the dominant guy we have seen him be in the Minors that changes a lot of things. I think the rotation with Cole,Taillon ,and Nova at the top will be okay and this offense is going to score runs. They should be in the running come September for a playoff spot.
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
I'm afraid alot of posters are going to be disappointed with Nova. Seems like the feeling that he a guaranteed quality mid-rotation starter are very high. He has a career with a lot of warts.
His contract indicates strongly that the market doesn't agree with the above expectations. I understand he may have taken less money to stay here, but everyone else got a look at his work last year too. He signed a fringe back of the rotation contract by todays standards.
The market has been wrong before, it will be wrong again, but expectations just seem very high.
His contract indicates strongly that the market doesn't agree with the above expectations. I understand he may have taken less money to stay here, but everyone else got a look at his work last year too. He signed a fringe back of the rotation contract by todays standards.
The market has been wrong before, it will be wrong again, but expectations just seem very high.
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Bobster21
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
717870616F150 wrote: I'm afraid alot of posters are going to be disappointed with Nova. Seems like the feeling that he a guaranteed quality mid-rotation starter are very high. He has a career with a lot of warts.
His contract indicates strongly that the market doesn't agree with the above expectations. I understand he may have taken less money to stay here, but everyone else got a look at his work last year too. He signed a fringe back of the rotation contract by todays standards.
The market has been wrong before, it will be wrong again, but expectations just seem very high.
I don't think Nova is as good as his Pirate outings last year (3.06 ERA and only 3 BBs in 64 IP) or as bad as some of his Yankee seasons in the slugging AL East. But I expect him to be a respectable #3. I worry that Cole may not be the pitcher we expected him to be. But if Cole, Taillon and Nova pitch up to expectations (which doesn't mean Nova has to be great), maybe Kuhl can be a decent #4 and someone can emerge as a decent #5. The encouraging thing with those top 4 is that we don't need them to be better than they've already demonstrated.
His contract indicates strongly that the market doesn't agree with the above expectations. I understand he may have taken less money to stay here, but everyone else got a look at his work last year too. He signed a fringe back of the rotation contract by todays standards.
The market has been wrong before, it will be wrong again, but expectations just seem very high.
I don't think Nova is as good as his Pirate outings last year (3.06 ERA and only 3 BBs in 64 IP) or as bad as some of his Yankee seasons in the slugging AL East. But I expect him to be a respectable #3. I worry that Cole may not be the pitcher we expected him to be. But if Cole, Taillon and Nova pitch up to expectations (which doesn't mean Nova has to be great), maybe Kuhl can be a decent #4 and someone can emerge as a decent #5. The encouraging thing with those top 4 is that we don't need them to be better than they've already demonstrated.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Could 2017 Be a Special Season
5F565E4F413B0 wrote: I'm afraid alot of posters are going to be disappointed with Nova. Seems like the feeling that he a guaranteed quality mid-rotation starter are very high. He has a career with a lot of warts.
His contract indicates strongly that the market doesn't agree with the above expectations. I understand he may have taken less money to stay here, but everyone else got a look at his work last year too. He signed a fringe back of the rotation contract by todays standards.
The market has been wrong before, it will be wrong again, but expectations just seem very high.
Didn't only a few pitchers get more money than Nova on the market? I know Rich Hill and Jason Hammel did (not by much). Many sites had Nova ranked higher too.
I am sure I am missing some, this is just off the top of my head. What was the market for starting pitchers this off season?
His contract indicates strongly that the market doesn't agree with the above expectations. I understand he may have taken less money to stay here, but everyone else got a look at his work last year too. He signed a fringe back of the rotation contract by todays standards.
The market has been wrong before, it will be wrong again, but expectations just seem very high.
Didn't only a few pitchers get more money than Nova on the market? I know Rich Hill and Jason Hammel did (not by much). Many sites had Nova ranked higher too.
I am sure I am missing some, this is just off the top of my head. What was the market for starting pitchers this off season?