242F272B2E2F347177003921282F2F6E232F400 wrote: On the MLB site; there is a article on 5 trade rumors. One of them has Cole going to the Yankees for Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield and maybe another player. Let's face it; Nutting is NOT going to pay Cole market value come 2019. Boras will not accept anything less.
I wish we could keep Cole but it goes against our thrifty (cheap) owner's philosophy. This year is quickly going down the tubes. Maybe we should be looking to deal him
I think Cole is stupid to not sign an extension. His career could end tomorrow. He is young enough to get another big deal too.
The Pirates did extend McCutchen, Cervelli, Harrison, Marte and Polanco. They did sign Liriano and Nova. Cole could easily be extended like the others.
P.S.
I don't even know if they ever talked about an extension.
He isn't resigning here. It's time you really start getting that in your head. I'd take a deal with the Yanks and not look back. Why would he want to sign an extension here?
July 31 trade deadline
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
July 31 trade deadline
744D5645504142454A464D4848240 wrote:
I think trading Cole this deadline would be a huge mistake and I hope they don't do it. No reason this staff couldn't win a the division in 2018.
Totally agree Coles our future. If this management team doesn't see that they need to go.
He is not our future. He will be gone by the trade deadline, this year, or next year, or leave via free agency in which Pittsburgh gets nothing.
I think trading Cole this deadline would be a huge mistake and I hope they don't do it. No reason this staff couldn't win a the division in 2018.
Totally agree Coles our future. If this management team doesn't see that they need to go.
He is not our future. He will be gone by the trade deadline, this year, or next year, or leave via free agency in which Pittsburgh gets nothing.
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johnfluharty
July 31 trade deadline
I agree, especially since we are a team that looks like it is falling apart. Whether via trade or free agency, he will eventually end up with a real contender, one willing to put up some big cash. Boras will make sure of that.
July 31 trade deadline
7C4A4B5C57564C5E7D504C4C3F0 wrote: That would be a terrible return for Cole and a poor decision for this organization. Bell looks like he will be just fine.
I think trading Cole this deadline would be a huge mistake and I hope they don't do it. No reason this staff couldn't win a the division in 2018.
It's not a huge mistake to deal him at all. This could be the year his value at the TDL might be at its highest peak. He is under control for two more years at well below the market price. That in itself brings a huge return. He very well could be the top pitcher on the market.
We aren't close to winning a division title in 2018. We aren't now. Winning a 2018 title means our management has to go out and shell out money to bring in good talents, not washed up reclamation projects.
I think trading Cole this deadline would be a huge mistake and I hope they don't do it. No reason this staff couldn't win a the division in 2018.
It's not a huge mistake to deal him at all. This could be the year his value at the TDL might be at its highest peak. He is under control for two more years at well below the market price. That in itself brings a huge return. He very well could be the top pitcher on the market.
We aren't close to winning a division title in 2018. We aren't now. Winning a 2018 title means our management has to go out and shell out money to bring in good talents, not washed up reclamation projects.
July 31 trade deadline
There are a few reasons NH might consider dealing Cole -
1- the obvious talent influx
2 - the cost: He comes up for arbitration (2) this year and is likely to get what mlbtr calls a 'spike' in salary. To keep the budget at 100MM, if he gets more, someone else has to go
3 - they have about three promising starters at AAA, all but ready to go and all eager to pitch for the MLB minimum salary . . .
4 - a bad season is a perfect cover, even if money is an important factor
Dealing older talent is a must if you want to stay competitive (and not have the boom/bust cycle). There just is no other source of quality prospects if you draft in the twenties. So this year or next I would expect to see Cole traded. I would lean toward this year. Many things can happen over the next two years, and any real Pirate fan knows that most of those things will be bad.
1- the obvious talent influx
2 - the cost: He comes up for arbitration (2) this year and is likely to get what mlbtr calls a 'spike' in salary. To keep the budget at 100MM, if he gets more, someone else has to go
3 - they have about three promising starters at AAA, all but ready to go and all eager to pitch for the MLB minimum salary . . .
4 - a bad season is a perfect cover, even if money is an important factor
Dealing older talent is a must if you want to stay competitive (and not have the boom/bust cycle). There just is no other source of quality prospects if you draft in the twenties. So this year or next I would expect to see Cole traded. I would lean toward this year. Many things can happen over the next two years, and any real Pirate fan knows that most of those things will be bad.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
July 31 trade deadline
A fan Q&A answered by who I'm assuming is a beat writer:
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/201 ... quint.html
Cole or Quintana, continued ...
The pick here would be Cole, who’s the better pitcher and is 26 years old, two years younger than Quintana. Cole is signed through 2020 while Quintana has a contract that runs through 2021. But Cole will enter his first year of salary arbitration next season and projects to be less expensive than Quintana, who’s owed almost $38 million, which is plenty reasonable for a pitcher of his caliber.
Both teams will want a boatload of young talent for either player. But only Cole would be worth it. Quintana has shown the ability of a No. 2 starter for most of his career, averaging 30 starts and a 3.41 ERA through his five seasons in the majors prior to 2017. Meanwhile, Cole has at least one ace-like season under his belt (2015: 19-8, 2.60 ERA) and has been just as good as Quintana — at least when he's on the mound. Cole has only made 30 starts once in a season.
. . . Figure any conversation for Cole could start with Pittsburgh asking for Gleyber Torres, the Yankees’ No. 1 overall prospect. Would the Yankees go there? It’s probably what they would have had to give up to get Chris Sale, whom Boston got for No. 1 overall prospect Yoan Moncada. Tough.
http://www.nj.com/yankees/index.ssf/201 ... quint.html
Cole or Quintana, continued ...
The pick here would be Cole, who’s the better pitcher and is 26 years old, two years younger than Quintana. Cole is signed through 2020 while Quintana has a contract that runs through 2021. But Cole will enter his first year of salary arbitration next season and projects to be less expensive than Quintana, who’s owed almost $38 million, which is plenty reasonable for a pitcher of his caliber.
Both teams will want a boatload of young talent for either player. But only Cole would be worth it. Quintana has shown the ability of a No. 2 starter for most of his career, averaging 30 starts and a 3.41 ERA through his five seasons in the majors prior to 2017. Meanwhile, Cole has at least one ace-like season under his belt (2015: 19-8, 2.60 ERA) and has been just as good as Quintana — at least when he's on the mound. Cole has only made 30 starts once in a season.
. . . Figure any conversation for Cole could start with Pittsburgh asking for Gleyber Torres, the Yankees’ No. 1 overall prospect. Would the Yankees go there? It’s probably what they would have had to give up to get Chris Sale, whom Boston got for No. 1 overall prospect Yoan Moncada. Tough.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
July 31 trade deadline
7C6C6D5A4C4C402F0 wrote: On the MLB site; there is a article on 5 trade rumors. One of them has Cole going to the Yankees for Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield and maybe another player. Let's face it; Nutting is NOT going to pay Cole market value come 2019. Boras will not accept anything less.
I wish we could keep Cole but it goes against our thrifty (cheap) owner's philosophy. This year is quickly going down the tubes. Maybe we should be looking to deal him
I think Cole is stupid to not sign an extension. His career could end tomorrow. He is young enough to get another big deal too.
The Pirates did extend McCutchen, Cervelli, Harrison, Marte and Polanco. They did sign Liriano and Nova. Cole could easily be extended like the others.
P.S.
I don't even know if they ever talked about an extension.
He isn't resigning here. It's time you really start getting that in your head. I'd take a deal with the Yanks and not look back. Why would he want to sign an extension here?
Money now is the reason why he should sign here. He is making $3.75 million this year. That can double in arbitration. Or he could sign for $30-$35 million for the next three years (just making up numbers). He would only lose one year of free agency and be a 29 year old free agent.
He should have had talks last year in my opinion. Now, that this season my be lost I don't know his future. Cole is a special talent. Every team would have him in their rotation. He is taking a risk waiting for free agency in my opinion for a big deal. He could have already had one with another approaching.
Look at McCutchen. What if he didn't sign for only $60 million? He won't get close to that contract again the pace he is on. His thought process had to be he would get another big deal at age 30. What would he be making if he just went to arbitration every year?
People like to bring up "team friendly" and that is the case at first. But they can easily turn into "player friendly" too. McCutchen is owed $28 million this year and next. He isn't worth that.
I wish we could keep Cole but it goes against our thrifty (cheap) owner's philosophy. This year is quickly going down the tubes. Maybe we should be looking to deal him
I think Cole is stupid to not sign an extension. His career could end tomorrow. He is young enough to get another big deal too.
The Pirates did extend McCutchen, Cervelli, Harrison, Marte and Polanco. They did sign Liriano and Nova. Cole could easily be extended like the others.
P.S.
I don't even know if they ever talked about an extension.
He isn't resigning here. It's time you really start getting that in your head. I'd take a deal with the Yanks and not look back. Why would he want to sign an extension here?
Money now is the reason why he should sign here. He is making $3.75 million this year. That can double in arbitration. Or he could sign for $30-$35 million for the next three years (just making up numbers). He would only lose one year of free agency and be a 29 year old free agent.
He should have had talks last year in my opinion. Now, that this season my be lost I don't know his future. Cole is a special talent. Every team would have him in their rotation. He is taking a risk waiting for free agency in my opinion for a big deal. He could have already had one with another approaching.
Look at McCutchen. What if he didn't sign for only $60 million? He won't get close to that contract again the pace he is on. His thought process had to be he would get another big deal at age 30. What would he be making if he just went to arbitration every year?
People like to bring up "team friendly" and that is the case at first. But they can easily turn into "player friendly" too. McCutchen is owed $28 million this year and next. He isn't worth that.
July 31 trade deadline
3A31393530312A6F691E273F363131703D315E0 wrote: On the MLB site; there is a article on 5 trade rumors. One of them has Cole going to the Yankees for Clint Frazier, Justus Sheffield and maybe another player. Let's face it; Nutting is NOT going to pay Cole market value come 2019. Boras will not accept anything less.
I wish we could keep Cole but it goes against our thrifty (cheap) owner's philosophy. This year is quickly going down the tubes. Maybe we should be looking to deal him
I think Cole is stupid to not sign an extension. His career could end tomorrow. He is young enough to get another big deal too.
The Pirates did extend McCutchen, Cervelli, Harrison, Marte and Polanco. They did sign Liriano and Nova. Cole could easily be extended like the others.
P.S.
I don't even know if they ever talked about an extension.
He isn't resigning here. It's time you really start getting that in your head. I'd take a deal with the Yanks and not look back. Why would he want to sign an extension here?
Money now is the reason why he should sign here. He is making $3.75 million this year. That can double in arbitration. Or he could sign for $30-$35 million for the next three years (just making up numbers). He would only lose one year of free agency and be a 29 year old free agent.
He should have had talks last year in my opinion. Now, that this season my be lost I don't know his future. Cole is a special talent. Every team would have him in their rotation. He is taking a risk waiting for free agency in my opinion for a big deal. He could have already had one with another approaching.
Look at McCutchen. What if he didn't sign for only $60 million? He won't get close to that contract again the pace he is on. His thought process had to be he would get another big deal at age 30. What would he be making if he just went to arbitration every year?
People like to bring up "team friendly" and that is the case at first. But they can easily turn into "player friendly" too. McCutchen is owed $28 million this year and next. He isn't worth that.
We don't have the money he would want as compared to the others down the line. He knows very well, if he continues to pitch decently and remains healthy, he will get tons of cash elsewhere. We aren't in play here. There seems to be bad blood between the two parties. Funny thing, he is our supposed ace. Elsewhere, he slots into a two or three slot because he really isn't an elite pitcher. He is good when he is on. His head is his problem.
Sure, his career could end tomorrow. I also suppose he wants a chance to win a title, if he remains healthy. He ain't getting that here anytime soon.
He is our biggest trade chip, not Cutch. Cutch will get us 20 cents on the dollar now. We could have gotten maybe 75 cents back in the winter. Trading Cole is our only chance to get an influx of talent. We have no other chips as this point.
I wish we could keep Cole but it goes against our thrifty (cheap) owner's philosophy. This year is quickly going down the tubes. Maybe we should be looking to deal him
I think Cole is stupid to not sign an extension. His career could end tomorrow. He is young enough to get another big deal too.
The Pirates did extend McCutchen, Cervelli, Harrison, Marte and Polanco. They did sign Liriano and Nova. Cole could easily be extended like the others.
P.S.
I don't even know if they ever talked about an extension.
He isn't resigning here. It's time you really start getting that in your head. I'd take a deal with the Yanks and not look back. Why would he want to sign an extension here?
Money now is the reason why he should sign here. He is making $3.75 million this year. That can double in arbitration. Or he could sign for $30-$35 million for the next three years (just making up numbers). He would only lose one year of free agency and be a 29 year old free agent.
He should have had talks last year in my opinion. Now, that this season my be lost I don't know his future. Cole is a special talent. Every team would have him in their rotation. He is taking a risk waiting for free agency in my opinion for a big deal. He could have already had one with another approaching.
Look at McCutchen. What if he didn't sign for only $60 million? He won't get close to that contract again the pace he is on. His thought process had to be he would get another big deal at age 30. What would he be making if he just went to arbitration every year?
People like to bring up "team friendly" and that is the case at first. But they can easily turn into "player friendly" too. McCutchen is owed $28 million this year and next. He isn't worth that.
We don't have the money he would want as compared to the others down the line. He knows very well, if he continues to pitch decently and remains healthy, he will get tons of cash elsewhere. We aren't in play here. There seems to be bad blood between the two parties. Funny thing, he is our supposed ace. Elsewhere, he slots into a two or three slot because he really isn't an elite pitcher. He is good when he is on. His head is his problem.
Sure, his career could end tomorrow. I also suppose he wants a chance to win a title, if he remains healthy. He ain't getting that here anytime soon.
He is our biggest trade chip, not Cutch. Cutch will get us 20 cents on the dollar now. We could have gotten maybe 75 cents back in the winter. Trading Cole is our only chance to get an influx of talent. We have no other chips as this point.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
July 31 trade deadline
I don't know that I'd absolutely rule out that we could be good next year.
I am not making dealing Cole a "must" but I would answer the phone.
I am not making dealing Cole a "must" but I would answer the phone.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
July 31 trade deadline
Correct, we don't have the money if he just hits free agency. I get that. That isn't what I said. Again, I don't know if there were ever talks, but Cole should have signed to get through his arbitration years and one year of free agency. That would have been the smart move in my opinion.
Yes, he is the Pirates biggest chip to deal. I disagree about him not being elite. He is very, very good. I don't really believe in the rotation slotting, but he would be every teams' top one - three pitcher depending on the team.
One more thing: His team has missed the Playoffs once in his career. No team has made the playoffs more than his current team since he has joined the league.
Yes, he is the Pirates biggest chip to deal. I disagree about him not being elite. He is very, very good. I don't really believe in the rotation slotting, but he would be every teams' top one - three pitcher depending on the team.
One more thing: His team has missed the Playoffs once in his career. No team has made the playoffs more than his current team since he has joined the league.