3B323A2B255F0 wrote: I agree, but no way do I want Watson coming in with a man on base. Rivero is in the right role, maybe the wrong reason, but it is working.
I don't see a reason to trade him. Even with Arbitration coming up, he would still get less than $3 million a year, right?
Well, I would never want us to trade a good player in arbitration due to salary anyway. That's a Piratey mentality since arbitration already allows the team to pay a percentage of their market value. I'm not interested in saving Bob's money, in case you haven't noticed.
I am interested in maximizing value of a trade piece before selling him and hoping and praying that NH is able to at least get even value for him. So the reason to trade him would be what he potentially could return as far as assets.
This is good sound reasoning, but I think it can wait a year at least.
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
He might be the Pirates' All Star this year. That will certainly get him noticed.
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LumberCo
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
let him put up a couple monster years then deal him. I just wish the club would take money they save and get some solid middle of the road free agents in the winter time. one can dream right?
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Bobster21
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
7E475F505740715D320 wrote: let him put up a couple monster years then deal him. I just wish the club would take money they save and get some solid middle of the road free agents in the winter time. one can dream right?
That's just it. If TBMTIB won't raise their paltry payroll and assemble a complete team, it won't matter if they can trade good players for prospects. It seems they're always trying to get by without addressing needs. They have some good players. They did a good job in keeping Nova. Cole and Taillon were expected to do well. But having both Kuhl and Glasnow in that rotation with no one better than Williams as depth was ill-advised from the start. Losing valuable bench players from last year and trying to get by with Gosselin and Hanson was a joke. Losing Kang and Marte and trying to get by with Jaso and not even a legit 3rd outfielder (Frazier is as close as they have to that but he's got limited experience) has been a disgraceful way to run a team. Rivero is someone they should look at as a shut down reliever they can build around. Someone who could be instrumental in getting them to the post season and winning playoff games. But it's unlikely he'll ever be surrounded by the right players to do that. They could trade him for good players or prospects. But those guys would face the same problem: playing on a team that chooses not to address needs because it costs more than they want to spend, which is near the bottom of MLB. It seems like a never ending cycle: get some good players, team them with some weak players, fall short, trade good players for prospects, rinse and repeat.
That's just it. If TBMTIB won't raise their paltry payroll and assemble a complete team, it won't matter if they can trade good players for prospects. It seems they're always trying to get by without addressing needs. They have some good players. They did a good job in keeping Nova. Cole and Taillon were expected to do well. But having both Kuhl and Glasnow in that rotation with no one better than Williams as depth was ill-advised from the start. Losing valuable bench players from last year and trying to get by with Gosselin and Hanson was a joke. Losing Kang and Marte and trying to get by with Jaso and not even a legit 3rd outfielder (Frazier is as close as they have to that but he's got limited experience) has been a disgraceful way to run a team. Rivero is someone they should look at as a shut down reliever they can build around. Someone who could be instrumental in getting them to the post season and winning playoff games. But it's unlikely he'll ever be surrounded by the right players to do that. They could trade him for good players or prospects. But those guys would face the same problem: playing on a team that chooses not to address needs because it costs more than they want to spend, which is near the bottom of MLB. It seems like a never ending cycle: get some good players, team them with some weak players, fall short, trade good players for prospects, rinse and repeat.
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
1E273F303720113D520 wrote: let him put up a couple monster years then deal him. I just wish the club would take money they save and get some solid middle of the road free agents in the winter time. one can dream right?
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
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Bobster21
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
5C7A7B6C7A6A190 wrote: let him put up a couple monster years then deal him. I just wish the club would take money they save and get some solid middle of the road free agents in the winter time. one can dream right?
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
But Hudson wasn't even expected to be as good as Feliz, who he was replacing.
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
But Hudson wasn't even expected to be as good as Feliz, who he was replacing.
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
4B666B7A7D6C7B3B38090 wrote: let him put up a couple monster years then deal him. I just wish the club would take money they save and get some solid middle of the road free agents in the winter time. one can dream right?
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
But Hudson wasn't even expected to be as good as Feliz, who he was replacing.
why do you think he wasn't supposed to be as good as Feliz?
Fangraphs had pretty positive article on him: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-all ... e-pirates/
A lot was made of the very bad stretch that Hudson had last year but the Pirates were signing him based on his good start and then good finish to season. It sure hasn't turned out great for Bucs so far though.
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
But Hudson wasn't even expected to be as good as Feliz, who he was replacing.
why do you think he wasn't supposed to be as good as Feliz?
Fangraphs had pretty positive article on him: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-all ... e-pirates/
A lot was made of the very bad stretch that Hudson had last year but the Pirates were signing him based on his good start and then good finish to season. It sure hasn't turned out great for Bucs so far though.
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Bobster21
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
0F29283F29394A0 wrote: let him put up a couple monster years then deal him. I just wish the club would take money they save and get some solid middle of the road free agents in the winter time. one can dream right?
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
But Hudson wasn't even expected to be as good as Feliz, who he was replacing.
why do you think he wasn't supposed to be as good as Feliz?
Fangraphs had pretty positive article on him: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-all ... e-pirates/
A lot was made of the very bad stretch that Hudson had last year but the Pirates were signing him based on his good start and then good finish to season. It sure hasn't turned out great for Bucs so far though.
The article is optimistic but that's based partially on his contract, noting that "the Pirates went bargain-hunting and hoped to find a pitcher who’s two-thirds as good as those relief aces, at one-eighth the cost." It further states "If he’s their closer for the next two years, that will be a bargain; he could also return hardly anything." It also notes that Hudson changed his arm motion after the TJ surgeries but that "For the health gains, he probably did have to give something back, though. There might have been an effect on his deception, as he notes."
I believe it's asking a lot to expect Hudson to be comparable to the job Feliz did for them last year. Peripheral stats are nice but results matter. Feliz' 3.52 ERA for 2016 was replaced by Hudson's 5.22 ERA for 2016. Feliz' WHIP of 1.137 was replaced by Hudson's 1.442. Feliz' H/9 of 6.7 was replaced by Hudson's 9.7. Feliz' 10.2 K/9 was replaced by Hudson's 8.7. It would be a great story if Hudson dramatically improves over 2016. But I find it hard to compare those two pitchers from last season and expect Hudson to be as effective as Feliz.
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
But Hudson wasn't even expected to be as good as Feliz, who he was replacing.
why do you think he wasn't supposed to be as good as Feliz?
Fangraphs had pretty positive article on him: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-all ... e-pirates/
A lot was made of the very bad stretch that Hudson had last year but the Pirates were signing him based on his good start and then good finish to season. It sure hasn't turned out great for Bucs so far though.
The article is optimistic but that's based partially on his contract, noting that "the Pirates went bargain-hunting and hoped to find a pitcher who’s two-thirds as good as those relief aces, at one-eighth the cost." It further states "If he’s their closer for the next two years, that will be a bargain; he could also return hardly anything." It also notes that Hudson changed his arm motion after the TJ surgeries but that "For the health gains, he probably did have to give something back, though. There might have been an effect on his deception, as he notes."
I believe it's asking a lot to expect Hudson to be comparable to the job Feliz did for them last year. Peripheral stats are nice but results matter. Feliz' 3.52 ERA for 2016 was replaced by Hudson's 5.22 ERA for 2016. Feliz' WHIP of 1.137 was replaced by Hudson's 1.442. Feliz' H/9 of 6.7 was replaced by Hudson's 9.7. Feliz' 10.2 K/9 was replaced by Hudson's 8.7. It would be a great story if Hudson dramatically improves over 2016. But I find it hard to compare those two pitchers from last season and expect Hudson to be as effective as Feliz.
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dogknot17@yahoo.co
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
Besides his rookie year, the Pirates probably got Feliz's best season. They were probably hoping for Hudson's best seasons too. Neither are pitching well this year.
Felipe Rivero hires Scott Boras
6D404D5C5B4A5D1D1E2F0 wrote: let him put up a couple monster years then deal him. I just wish the club would take money they save and get some solid middle of the road free agents in the winter time. one can dream right?
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
But Hudson wasn't even expected to be as good as Feliz, who he was replacing.
why do you think he wasn't supposed to be as good as Feliz?
Fangraphs had pretty positive article on him: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-all ... e-pirates/
A lot was made of the very bad stretch that Hudson had last year but the Pirates were signing him based on his good start and then good finish to season. It sure hasn't turned out great for Bucs so far though.
The article is optimistic but that's based partially on his contract, noting that "the Pirates went bargain-hunting and hoped to find a pitcher who’s two-thirds as good as those relief aces, at one-eighth the cost." It further states "If he’s their closer for the next two years, that will be a bargain; he could also return hardly anything." It also notes that Hudson changed his arm motion after the TJ surgeries but that "For the health gains, he probably did have to give something back, though. There might have been an effect on his deception, as he notes."
I believe it's asking a lot to expect Hudson to be comparable to the job Feliz did for them last year. Peripheral stats are nice but results matter. Feliz' 3.52 ERA for 2016 was replaced by Hudson's 5.22 ERA for 2016. Feliz' WHIP of 1.137 was replaced by Hudson's 1.442. Feliz' H/9 of 6.7 was replaced by Hudson's 9.7. Feliz' 10.2 K/9 was replaced by Hudson's 8.7. It would be a great story if Hudson dramatically improves over 2016. But I find it hard to compare those two pitchers from last season and expect Hudson to be as effective as Feliz.
Partially just going by demand and by contracts signed on Hudson. I was hoping the Bucs were right about him and that he was getting ready to put together some good years. It is strange to me that the Bucs were willing to gamble that much money on him.
I wonder if the Bucs will try and dump him.
The team now has Bastardo and Hudson making eleven million a season and who are white flag pitchers. Not a good situation.
The Bucs would argue they did this in signing Hudson, just turned out so far that Hudson isn't solid.
But Hudson wasn't even expected to be as good as Feliz, who he was replacing.
why do you think he wasn't supposed to be as good as Feliz?
Fangraphs had pretty positive article on him: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/lets-all ... e-pirates/
A lot was made of the very bad stretch that Hudson had last year but the Pirates were signing him based on his good start and then good finish to season. It sure hasn't turned out great for Bucs so far though.
The article is optimistic but that's based partially on his contract, noting that "the Pirates went bargain-hunting and hoped to find a pitcher who’s two-thirds as good as those relief aces, at one-eighth the cost." It further states "If he’s their closer for the next two years, that will be a bargain; he could also return hardly anything." It also notes that Hudson changed his arm motion after the TJ surgeries but that "For the health gains, he probably did have to give something back, though. There might have been an effect on his deception, as he notes."
I believe it's asking a lot to expect Hudson to be comparable to the job Feliz did for them last year. Peripheral stats are nice but results matter. Feliz' 3.52 ERA for 2016 was replaced by Hudson's 5.22 ERA for 2016. Feliz' WHIP of 1.137 was replaced by Hudson's 1.442. Feliz' H/9 of 6.7 was replaced by Hudson's 9.7. Feliz' 10.2 K/9 was replaced by Hudson's 8.7. It would be a great story if Hudson dramatically improves over 2016. But I find it hard to compare those two pitchers from last season and expect Hudson to be as effective as Feliz.
Partially just going by demand and by contracts signed on Hudson. I was hoping the Bucs were right about him and that he was getting ready to put together some good years. It is strange to me that the Bucs were willing to gamble that much money on him.
I wonder if the Bucs will try and dump him.
The team now has Bastardo and Hudson making eleven million a season and who are white flag pitchers. Not a good situation.