OnlyBucs

414443454D475E434A595F522B0 wrote: If by compete you mean hang around in the division with an at least modest chance of making the playoffs as a wild-card till fairly late in the season (some time after the all star break) then I think we can do that.  I'm beginning to believe that's what Nutting and company shoot for each year while hoping to get lucky and do better. 








I, too, think that will be their lot for this year. I don't think is necessarily their goal, but I'm not sure that they will ever be able to do more than assemble a group of good players and hope they all put it together and get lucky. If the payroll stays around $100 million, what more can they do? That's pretty much what happened in the three playoff years. They got some great performances from McCutchen and Cole and really solid performances from a lot surprising sources. Sadly, those two in particular, along with Marte stopped producing at those high levels.

if they can beat the Reds over half the time the team might make it to 500.



Last year was pretty much injury free pitching wise. Unlikely to happen two years in a row.



Only will have an offense if Marte and Polanco do a lot better than last year, Bell improves and Moran is decent at third.



Harrison and Mercer should be able to match what they did last year.

My response is "cow chips"!

082E2F382E3E4D0 wrote: if they can beat the Reds over half the time the team might make it to 500.



Last year was pretty much injury free pitching wise.  Unlikely to happen two years in a row.



Only will have an offense if Marte and Polanco do a lot better than last year, Bell improves and Moran is decent at third.



Harrison and Mercer should be able to match what they did last year.


Last year, they had a visa issue, a suspension, and a cancer patient. And they had their fair share of injuries on top of that. Last year's team was pretty good in my opinion. Losing those three players was why they lost.

7D5C547D565E390 wrote: My response is "cow chips"! 


The problem is that they really have not fully committed to a rebuild.  If they did, they would have sold Cole for low-level high-ceiling players instead of a collection of lower-ceiling ready-for-MLB players.  A rebuilding team would move Mercer, Harrison, Nova, and any other players with a significant salary who won't be here in a couple seasons.  A rebuilding team is willing to take a hit and lose significant games to really bolster the lower minor leagues.  These guys are still trying to tread water in a misguided 'not lose 90' mind-set. 

383D3A3C343E273A3320262B520 wrote: My response is "cow chips"! 


The problem is that they really have not fully committed to a rebuild.  If they did, they would have sold Cole for low-level high-ceiling players instead of a collection of lower-ceiling ready-for-MLB players.  A rebuilding team would move Mercer, Harrison, Nova, and any other players with a significant salary who won't be here in a couple seasons.  A rebuilding team is willing to take a hit and lose significant games to really bolster the lower minor leagues.  These guys are still trying to tread water in a misguided 'not lose 90' mind-set. 




White Sox as an example of a rebuild. Of course the Pirates don't have the quality of vets to make the haul the ChiSox did but still ...

405D797B75100 wrote: Discuss.



Does this team have a chance to compete this year?



Next year?


This is a rebuild. I don't know how they can say it isn't. They are trying to pass it off as not because they acquired four pieces that will be in our lineup this year (Moran, Crick, Musgrove and Feliz). So a possible starting 3B man and probably three relievers? Big time vacant hole in the OF and in the rotation based on these trades still. They won't be competitive for more than five years for starters. They have to to hope these pieces develop into players. We know they won't add good pieces via deals or free agency.

The Pirates are certainly rebuilding. Any team dreaming of making the playoffs needs some elite talent to make it. Who are the players on the Pirates that fit that description? I can think of only one who is unequivocally that, Felipe Rivero. Marte, Bell and Taillon have the potential to reach that, but all have at least some lingering doubts that they'll be more than just good.



Overall this team's talent level makes me think that in 2018 they'll be around .500. If a good number of the young players flounder or regress then they'll be considerably worse than that. I simply don't believe it's reasonable to think that all the young players will take a step forward so I put their ceiling at one or two game over .500 if all goes unusually well.

Prior to this weekend, I would have said "it all depends on Meadows and Glasnow". But, they'll need more guys taking the step forward like Moroff, Luplow and Brault.



My biggest concern now is that Hurdle gets locked into starting guys like Freese, Mercer, Rodriguez and Harrison. I'd like them to use this season to see what they have in:



Luplow, Moroff, Moran, Brault and Glasnow.



And I'd like to see Meadows, Newman and Kramer get reps at the ML level. I'd like Meadows to be pushing Polanco for a starting OF job. Polanco might need some internal pressure to challenge his job security.

I think we're looking at Meadows at around the midway point of the season on.