Would It Be Appropriate To Retire Cutch’s Number

DemDog · Post by **DemDog** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:46 pm

6C676F6366677C393F487169606767266B67080 wrote: No way was Van Slyke (8 years) or Virdon (11 years) better with the bat than McCutchen. McCutchen was/is the better hitter. Those two were better on defense, but not offense.

McCutchen is up there for best CF of all time. I think I would give him the nod too.

I will let you get away with this one Dog because you probably were not born when Quail, Bobster, and I among OBNers witnessed Virdon play. And you might have been young enough to not appreciate Van Slyke and his all around play. But you did get to witness Cutch and the amazing play he gave the Pirates during his tenure with the team.

Perhaps it is not really possible for any of us to agree on who the greatest CF of all time for the Pirates is and the fact that all 3 of the guys in this thread would get votes.

SammyKhalifa · Post by **SammyKhalifa** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:50 pm

52737B527971160 wrote: No way was Van Slyke (8 years) or Virdon (11 years) better with the bat than McCutchen. McCutchen was/is the better hitter. Those two were better on defense, but not offense.

McCutchen is up there for best CF of all time. I think I would give him the nod too.

I will let you get away with this one Dog because you probably were not born when Quail, Bobster, and I among OBNers witnessed Virdon play. And you might have been young enough to not appreciate Van Slyke and his all around play. But you did get to witness Cutch and the amazing play he gave the Pirates during his tenure with the team.

Perhaps it is not really possible for any of us to agree on who the greatest CF of all time for the Pirates is and the fact that all 3 of the guys in this thread would get votes.

Marvell Wynne hands down

DemDog · Post by **DemDog** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:50 pm

How about the Cards retiring Eddie Gaedel's # 1/8

Check out his story Eddie Gaedel Story

dogknot17@yahoo.co · Post by **dogknot17@yahoo.co** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:11 pm

406169406B63040 wrote: No way was Van Slyke (8 years) or Virdon (11 years) better with the bat than McCutchen. McCutchen was/is the better hitter. Those two were better on defense, but not offense.

McCutchen is up there for best CF of all time. I think I would give him the nod too.

I will let you get away with this one Dog because you probably were not born when Quail, Bobster, and I among OBNers witnessed Virdon play. And you might have been young enough to not appreciate Van Slyke and his all around play. But you did get to witness Cutch and the amazing play he gave the Pirates during his tenure with the team.

Perhaps it is not really possible for any of us to agree on who the greatest CF of all time for the Pirates is and the fact that all 3 of the guys in this thread would get votes.

I can read stats. I am not going to say Honus Wagner was not a great player because I didn't see him play. I never saw Roberto Clemente play either.

Andy Van Slyke is my favorite Pirate of all time. Andrew McCutchen was still a better overall ball player.

BenM · Post by **BenM** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:53 am

He's going to get his number retired because ten years from now Nutting is going to use it as a marketing stunt.

ArnoldRothstein · Post by **ArnoldRothstein** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:34 am

I say yes. As said above, standards have to change somewhat to reflect that we won't have players for 15 years anymore. McCutchen was exemplary in his time here, both on and (as far as we can tell) off the field. Despite all the complaining about it, the 2013-15 Pirates were a very fine team, and he was the clear leader.

INbuc · Post by **INbuc** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:07 pm

Cutch may lack the traditional service time, stat accumulation, or other group-think criteria for having his number retired. However, there may be other ways to honor him and others who could ultimately be classified in his similar situation. At the University of Kentucky they honor basketball players by retiring their jersey but not their number. The school has a ceremony where they give the player a framed uniform and then they raise a banner to the rafters with the player’s name and number. UK continues to make all numbers available for active player distribution.

Perhaps the Pirates could find some middle-ground like that to recognize great players and representatives of the organization like Cutch. As we’ve discussed, it is hard to any longer fathom a Pirate coming up through the minors and having a 15 year playing career with the Bucs.

This clip will remind us of the ease with which Cutch transitioned from on-field to off-the-field greatness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5FTcjwS8Qk

dmetz · Post by **dmetz** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:17 pm

Retiring his number, (with his numbers and accomplishments to this point) would help to further solidify this organization as 2nd (or 3rd) tier...with 2nd tier stars.

If he continues his career successfully and ends up hall of fame worthy, I think you could consider it. Definitely not right now. We won nothing, his numbers don't warrant it.

ArnoldRothstein · Post by **ArnoldRothstein** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:08 pm

38313928265C0 wrote:

If he continues his career successfully and ends up hall of fame worthy, I think you could consider it. Definitely not right now. We won nothing, his numbers don't warrant it.

I don't see any sense in retiring his number in recognition of what he accomplished for others. The Hall of Fame makes all sorts of mistakes, and in general outsourcing who you can honor means you're not actually honoring them. It takes multiple great players to win. The bottom line is that he was great player who was loved here, and retiring a number should consider both ends of that.

dmetz · Post by **dmetz** » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:26 pm

Possom brought up Andy Van Slyke. I disagree with him that Van Slyke is Cutchs tier, but he was very very good.

Both Cutch and VanSlyke came into the league at 22. Cutch is leaving at 30. Van Slyke left at at an almost identical career point.

I think value-wise, Cutch is clearly better but not a lot.

Van Slyke career was essentially over age 31.

Would it be appropriate to retire his number?