65575B5B4F7D5E575A5F5057360 wrote: Morton had upper 90's stuff when he was here. He just wasn't allowed to throw a 4 seam fastball.
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The reason that Cole and Morton were salary dumped is the same and it has nothing to do with 4 seam fastballs. It has everything to do with BOB wanting to save money to deposit in the First National Bank of Wheeling.
So you were mad when they traded Morton, right?
Absolutely. I am always mad when they get rid of a major league ball player and replace him with a LMG. However, when they acquire a major league ball player (it doesn't happen very often) then I give them credit.
Cole
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Cole
0E3C30302416353C31343B3C5D0 wrote: Morton had upper 90's stuff when he was here. He just wasn't allowed to throw a 4 seam fastball.
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The reason that Cole and Morton were salary dumped is the same and it has nothing to do with 4 seam fastballs. It has everything to do with BOB wanting to save money to deposit in the First National Bank of Wheeling.
So you were mad when they traded Morton, right?
No not really, but are you saying Morton and Cole weren't handled properly?
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The reason that Cole and Morton were salary dumped is the same and it has nothing to do with 4 seam fastballs. It has everything to do with BOB wanting to save money to deposit in the First National Bank of Wheeling.
So you were mad when they traded Morton, right?
No not really, but are you saying Morton and Cole weren't handled properly?
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rucker59@gmail.com
Cole
0724313130383B353031266C6C540 wrote: Morton had upper 90's stuff when he was here. He just wasn't allowed to throw a 4 seam fastball.
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The reason that Cole and Morton were salary dumped is the same and it has nothing to do with 4 seam fastballs. It has everything to do with BOB wanting to save money to deposit in the First National Bank of Wheeling.
Its Wesbanco bank
I thought it was Nuttington Bank
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The reason that Cole and Morton were salary dumped is the same and it has nothing to do with 4 seam fastballs. It has everything to do with BOB wanting to save money to deposit in the First National Bank of Wheeling.
Its Wesbanco bank
I thought it was Nuttington Bank
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rucker59@gmail.com
Cole
39242022372F382E264D0 wrote: This is what Doofus salary dumped!
"Gerrit Cole dominated the Diamondbacks on Friday, striking out 16 in a one-hit shutout.
I figured he’d be better. But I’m stunned at how dominant he’s been.
Nutting didn’t keep Cole from being dominant in Pittsburgh - I think it’s a fair Q to ask: why does Cole look like a different guy in an Astro’s uni?
I have serious doubts as to whether Cole would have been the pitcher we're seeing with Houston if he'd remained a Pirate. He'd been a mediocre starter for the last two seasons with the Bucs, and I wasn't terribly upset to see them trade him for a potential long term 3rd base solution and some pitching. His Success with the Astros is a lot more damning to the Pirate coaching staff/pitching philosophy than to Nutting's tight wallet or Huntington's GM acumen.
There is no doubt in my mind that Cole would’ve been the same barely above average Cole had he remained in Pittsburgh. Coaching and/or management philosophy is to blame here. Since nutting refuses to spend, they must make up for it in other areas (coaching, analytics, DRAFTING).....big failure lately.
Also, now Morton hits 99 mph and looks like a legit cy young contender?!?
“Ground Chuck” is also a World Champion....
Your point about the Pirates maximizing their assets is the HUGE point. They can’t miss on the guys they have in the organization. HOW is it possible the Pirates missed (not by a little bit) on these two guys??
Is this on Pirate Philosophy, management, execution? Whatever it is, this is not just a “bad look”, it’s disastrous for an organization that two years ago could have been playing for a World Series.
"Gerrit Cole dominated the Diamondbacks on Friday, striking out 16 in a one-hit shutout.
I figured he’d be better. But I’m stunned at how dominant he’s been.
Nutting didn’t keep Cole from being dominant in Pittsburgh - I think it’s a fair Q to ask: why does Cole look like a different guy in an Astro’s uni?
I have serious doubts as to whether Cole would have been the pitcher we're seeing with Houston if he'd remained a Pirate. He'd been a mediocre starter for the last two seasons with the Bucs, and I wasn't terribly upset to see them trade him for a potential long term 3rd base solution and some pitching. His Success with the Astros is a lot more damning to the Pirate coaching staff/pitching philosophy than to Nutting's tight wallet or Huntington's GM acumen.
There is no doubt in my mind that Cole would’ve been the same barely above average Cole had he remained in Pittsburgh. Coaching and/or management philosophy is to blame here. Since nutting refuses to spend, they must make up for it in other areas (coaching, analytics, DRAFTING).....big failure lately.
Also, now Morton hits 99 mph and looks like a legit cy young contender?!?
“Ground Chuck” is also a World Champion....
Your point about the Pirates maximizing their assets is the HUGE point. They can’t miss on the guys they have in the organization. HOW is it possible the Pirates missed (not by a little bit) on these two guys??
Is this on Pirate Philosophy, management, execution? Whatever it is, this is not just a “bad look”, it’s disastrous for an organization that two years ago could have been playing for a World Series.
Cole
45445F4E58181F2B0 wrote: Morton had upper 90's stuff when he was here. He just wasn't allowed to throw a 4 seam fastball.
--
The reason that Cole and Morton were salary dumped is the same and it has nothing to do with 4 seam fastballs. It has everything to do with BOB wanting to save money to deposit in the First National Bank of Wheeling.
So you were mad when they traded Morton, right?
No not really, but are you saying Morton and Cole weren't handled properly?
I have another thread going now about 4 seam vs 2 seam which referenced Cole and Morton. It is an easy argument to float based on the great start by Cole and Morton in 2018. My point wasn't necessarily to say they were mismanaged as Pirates .... though they might have been.
My point was should we look at the facts as they have played out with Cole and Morton and maybe reconsider the blueprint for our current starters?
I really think guys Taillon and Kuhl have great promise. I just don't want them handcuffed with yesterday' s strategy. What's the old saying " if you ignore history you are doomed to repeat it?"
--
The reason that Cole and Morton were salary dumped is the same and it has nothing to do with 4 seam fastballs. It has everything to do with BOB wanting to save money to deposit in the First National Bank of Wheeling.
So you were mad when they traded Morton, right?
No not really, but are you saying Morton and Cole weren't handled properly?
I have another thread going now about 4 seam vs 2 seam which referenced Cole and Morton. It is an easy argument to float based on the great start by Cole and Morton in 2018. My point wasn't necessarily to say they were mismanaged as Pirates .... though they might have been.
My point was should we look at the facts as they have played out with Cole and Morton and maybe reconsider the blueprint for our current starters?
I really think guys Taillon and Kuhl have great promise. I just don't want them handcuffed with yesterday' s strategy. What's the old saying " if you ignore history you are doomed to repeat it?"
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rucker59@gmail.com
Cole
1D1A362137540 wrote: Morton had upper 90's stuff when he was here. He just wasn't allowed to throw a 4 seam fastball.
--
The reason that Cole and Morton were salary dumped is the same and it has nothing to do with 4 seam fastballs. It has everything to do with BOB wanting to save money to deposit in the First National Bank of Wheeling.
So you were mad when they traded Morton, right?
No not really, but are you saying Morton and Cole weren't handled properly?
I have another thread going now about 4 seam vs 2 seam which referenced Cole and Morton. It is an easy argument to float based on the great start by Cole and Morton in 2018. My point wasn't necessarily to say they were mismanaged as Pirates .... though they might have been.
My point was should we look at the facts as they have played out with Cole and Morton and maybe reconsider the blueprint for our current starters?
I really think guys Taillon and Kuhl have great promise. I just don't want them handcuffed with yesterday' s strategy. What's the old saying " if you ignore history you are doomed to repeat it?"
Really good point. In yesterday’s game thread (5/5) I challenged the idea Tallion had “a good” start.
Cole had a lot of good starts as a Pirate. But he needed to be “great”. The guys with the “great potential” should not be held to the same std as another guy with “good potential”.
I’m hoping Tallion is going to be great. As a Pirate, not as an Astro...
--
The reason that Cole and Morton were salary dumped is the same and it has nothing to do with 4 seam fastballs. It has everything to do with BOB wanting to save money to deposit in the First National Bank of Wheeling.
So you were mad when they traded Morton, right?
No not really, but are you saying Morton and Cole weren't handled properly?
I have another thread going now about 4 seam vs 2 seam which referenced Cole and Morton. It is an easy argument to float based on the great start by Cole and Morton in 2018. My point wasn't necessarily to say they were mismanaged as Pirates .... though they might have been.
My point was should we look at the facts as they have played out with Cole and Morton and maybe reconsider the blueprint for our current starters?
I really think guys Taillon and Kuhl have great promise. I just don't want them handcuffed with yesterday' s strategy. What's the old saying " if you ignore history you are doomed to repeat it?"
Really good point. In yesterday’s game thread (5/5) I challenged the idea Tallion had “a good” start.
Cole had a lot of good starts as a Pirate. But he needed to be “great”. The guys with the “great potential” should not be held to the same std as another guy with “good potential”.
I’m hoping Tallion is going to be great. As a Pirate, not as an Astro...
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DemDog
Cole
Its been interesting reading the discussion of Cole and Morton and their seemingly great success once they got to the Astros. Good for both of them, especially Ground Chuck, I liked him alot.
But they are both ex-Pirates doing well elsewhere rather than for the current version of the Pirates. I wish both were here but they are not so I am just putting them off my mind and rooting and hoping that the current iteration of "good" pitchers become "great" while still in the Black & Gold.
But they are both ex-Pirates doing well elsewhere rather than for the current version of the Pirates. I wish both were here but they are not so I am just putting them off my mind and rooting and hoping that the current iteration of "good" pitchers become "great" while still in the Black & Gold.
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rucker59@gmail.com
Cole
17363E173C34530 wrote: Its been interesting reading the discussion of Cole and Morton and their seemingly great success once they got to the Astros. Good for both of them, especially Ground Chuck, I liked him alot.
But they are both ex-Pirates doing well elsewhere rather than for the current version of the Pirates. I wish both were here but they are not so I am just putting them off my mind and rooting and hoping that the current iteration of "good" pitchers become "great" while still in the Black & Gold.
Agreed Possum. My concern is whether there is a "systemic" problem that is keeping some guys from reaching their potential. I have nothing to base this on other than the Pirates have not had a true ace in a long time despite investing a lot of the draft and $$$$ into high ceiling guys. Cole and Charlie add to the questions.
But they are both ex-Pirates doing well elsewhere rather than for the current version of the Pirates. I wish both were here but they are not so I am just putting them off my mind and rooting and hoping that the current iteration of "good" pitchers become "great" while still in the Black & Gold.
Agreed Possum. My concern is whether there is a "systemic" problem that is keeping some guys from reaching their potential. I have nothing to base this on other than the Pirates have not had a true ace in a long time despite investing a lot of the draft and $$$$ into high ceiling guys. Cole and Charlie add to the questions.
Cole
5F584E46485F18146D4A404C4441034E42402D0 wrote: Its been interesting reading the discussion of Cole and Morton and their seemingly great success once they got to the Astros. Good for both of them, especially Ground Chuck, I liked him alot.
But they are both ex-Pirates doing well elsewhere rather than for the current version of the Pirates. I wish both were here but they are not so I am just putting them off my mind and rooting and hoping that the current iteration of "good" pitchers become "great" while still in the Black & Gold.
Agreed Possum. My concern is whether there is a "systemic" problem that is keeping some guys from reaching their potential. I have nothing to base this on other than the Pirates have not had a true ace in a long time despite investing a lot of the draft and $$$$ into high ceiling guys. Cole and Charlie add to the questions.
It is a systemic problem. The system is that if a player they drafted turns out to be a less than average player, they dump him rather than pay him. If the player turns out to be an average player, they dump him rather than pay him. If the player turns out to be an above average player, they dump him rather than pay him.
But they are both ex-Pirates doing well elsewhere rather than for the current version of the Pirates. I wish both were here but they are not so I am just putting them off my mind and rooting and hoping that the current iteration of "good" pitchers become "great" while still in the Black & Gold.
Agreed Possum. My concern is whether there is a "systemic" problem that is keeping some guys from reaching their potential. I have nothing to base this on other than the Pirates have not had a true ace in a long time despite investing a lot of the draft and $$$$ into high ceiling guys. Cole and Charlie add to the questions.
It is a systemic problem. The system is that if a player they drafted turns out to be a less than average player, they dump him rather than pay him. If the player turns out to be an average player, they dump him rather than pay him. If the player turns out to be an above average player, they dump him rather than pay him.