487472746F667069070 wrote: Getting tired of "manning up" during a game to by drilling a batter after our's gets hit. Wait until after the game and go punch someone in the face. Win the damn game first and then defend your team.
I get your frustration but I respectfully disagree. Musgrove evidently is principled and understands the bigger picture. It is men like him, who through their actions, may raise the level of competitiveness and accountability for the entire team. I have a feeling he may be the type to call BS on Management. Perhaps we have someone who will walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
Arizona game
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
Arizona game
Fortunately, I went to bed. It was 5-0 when I went to sleep.
I get the angst about this game. You can't blow that game. However, blaming this loss on Hurdle or Huntington is ridiculous. I have lots of gripes with them too, but blaming them for a bullpen of major leaguers losing a 5-0 game is silly. Can we stop devolving every loss thread into a "blame the FO" rallying cry?
I get the angst about this game. You can't blow that game. However, blaming this loss on Hurdle or Huntington is ridiculous. I have lots of gripes with them too, but blaming them for a bullpen of major leaguers losing a 5-0 game is silly. Can we stop devolving every loss thread into a "blame the FO" rallying cry?
-
CarolinaBucco
Arizona game
So here's how bad it's gotten for the Pirates.
I went to bed at 5-0 in the middle of the 7th ... and I KNEW FOR CERTAIN that I would wake up to another blown lead and extreme disappointment. And sure enough ...
It's really pathetic when you're up 5-0 in the 7th and YOU KNOW you can't get the last 9 outs.
This team is rotten to the core.
I went to bed at 5-0 in the middle of the 7th ... and I KNEW FOR CERTAIN that I would wake up to another blown lead and extreme disappointment. And sure enough ...
It's really pathetic when you're up 5-0 in the 7th and YOU KNOW you can't get the last 9 outs.
This team is rotten to the core.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Arizona game
Three rookie pitchers blew that lead. Santana and Crick have been pretty good this year. They had a bad game. The Freese play hurt. A play he always makes. Diaz getting burned throwing behind a fast runner was bad. Mugrove looked good. He left the game with an ERA of 1.80.
-
CarolinaBucco
Arizona game
The worst part is, my son was there. He had sits right behind home plate and had to witness the whole thing.
I actually feel guilty about it. I am 100% of the reason why my son loves the Pirates.
I have doomed him to a fan's lifetime of disappointment, frustration and misery. I only hope he doesn't take the losses as hard as I do.
I actually feel guilty about it. I am 100% of the reason why my son loves the Pirates.
I have doomed him to a fan's lifetime of disappointment, frustration and misery. I only hope he doesn't take the losses as hard as I do.
Arizona game
4344525A5443040871565C50585D1F525E5C310 wrote: Not holding a 1 or 2 run lead is a killer. Not holding 3 or more run leads is an organizational embarrassment.
We all know baseball is a game of endurance; everything has to be earned through the reality of games played daily for six months. It is hard to fool or hide from time.
I truly hate that this is true, but it is the harsh reality of this great game: Time is proving that the Pirate’s run of 2013-2015 was lightening in a bottle, luck. It was not the result of a sustainable plan that can be “turned over” every few years. Everything that looked like genius in 2015 looks like incompetence in 2018.
Remember when Neal could pick out the undervalued rebound? Ray was the “Doctor”? Clint was a players manager that guided the clubhouse into a sanctuary of clam and confidence? The BMT ever assembled was undeniably pretty darn good?
None of that is true. The 2013-1015 teams were good. But it was lightening in a bottle. It was not the result of a sustainable or repeatable planning process. 162 game schedules sort out the pretenders Each season. 100+ years of history sorts out the pretenders over a generation.
Neal is no closer to building a sustainable winner than Dave Littlefield was. Neal caught lightening, but can’t catch it again. I certainly like Neal’s plan better, but there is no magic: baseball is built upon steady superior performance. That comes from the better players. The better players are strategically supplemented with better role players.
For every AJ Happ the Pirates uncover, there is going to be a steady stream of middling millionaires providing, ultimately, a middlingly team. And when the Pirates do uncover AJ Happ, but let him walk after 3 months, a player that could represent a “better player, with steady performances” and replace him yet another project....there is no chance.
2016 represents reality crashing in: building teams around names like Neace and Vogelsong is not a plan at all; it does not build a sustainable winner. No one can build a sustainable plan playing craps. Neal got a lucky on a couple throws of the dice, but the House ALWAYS wins....
I’ve held on to the belief that 2018 was going to be a good, competitive team. I was wrong. It could only work if Neal was a genius and Ray was indeed The Doctor and Clint was Magic. None of these guys are better than their reality: a middling team is bound, ultimately, to playing middling baseball. That’s all there is here. I was wrong this year. I was right in 2016 as I railed against broken trust and broken promises. But I was wrong this year.
Wholesale changes must be made. Neal’s plan, sadly, won’t work. Playing craps is not a plan.
This is why I feel so left down. We were told that the plan was in place and the moves to bolster the roster would be made when the time was right. It was right in 2016. This management team in getting what they deserve. Sorry, I love this team but I'm sick and tired of the BS. The team they have assembled sucks. Plan and simple. The fast start to the season is the only thing keeping them from losing 100 games. Get ready for another long stretch of this. Ownership will now say the fans aren't supporting them so payroll won't increase or worse yet get decreased again. Its always going to be this vicious cycle until we have a real owner.
We all know baseball is a game of endurance; everything has to be earned through the reality of games played daily for six months. It is hard to fool or hide from time.
I truly hate that this is true, but it is the harsh reality of this great game: Time is proving that the Pirate’s run of 2013-2015 was lightening in a bottle, luck. It was not the result of a sustainable plan that can be “turned over” every few years. Everything that looked like genius in 2015 looks like incompetence in 2018.
Remember when Neal could pick out the undervalued rebound? Ray was the “Doctor”? Clint was a players manager that guided the clubhouse into a sanctuary of clam and confidence? The BMT ever assembled was undeniably pretty darn good?
None of that is true. The 2013-1015 teams were good. But it was lightening in a bottle. It was not the result of a sustainable or repeatable planning process. 162 game schedules sort out the pretenders Each season. 100+ years of history sorts out the pretenders over a generation.
Neal is no closer to building a sustainable winner than Dave Littlefield was. Neal caught lightening, but can’t catch it again. I certainly like Neal’s plan better, but there is no magic: baseball is built upon steady superior performance. That comes from the better players. The better players are strategically supplemented with better role players.
For every AJ Happ the Pirates uncover, there is going to be a steady stream of middling millionaires providing, ultimately, a middlingly team. And when the Pirates do uncover AJ Happ, but let him walk after 3 months, a player that could represent a “better player, with steady performances” and replace him yet another project....there is no chance.
2016 represents reality crashing in: building teams around names like Neace and Vogelsong is not a plan at all; it does not build a sustainable winner. No one can build a sustainable plan playing craps. Neal got a lucky on a couple throws of the dice, but the House ALWAYS wins....
I’ve held on to the belief that 2018 was going to be a good, competitive team. I was wrong. It could only work if Neal was a genius and Ray was indeed The Doctor and Clint was Magic. None of these guys are better than their reality: a middling team is bound, ultimately, to playing middling baseball. That’s all there is here. I was wrong this year. I was right in 2016 as I railed against broken trust and broken promises. But I was wrong this year.
Wholesale changes must be made. Neal’s plan, sadly, won’t work. Playing craps is not a plan.
This is why I feel so left down. We were told that the plan was in place and the moves to bolster the roster would be made when the time was right. It was right in 2016. This management team in getting what they deserve. Sorry, I love this team but I'm sick and tired of the BS. The team they have assembled sucks. Plan and simple. The fast start to the season is the only thing keeping them from losing 100 games. Get ready for another long stretch of this. Ownership will now say the fans aren't supporting them so payroll won't increase or worse yet get decreased again. Its always going to be this vicious cycle until we have a real owner.
Arizona game
I really like Joe Musgrove. As lukewarm as I am on Moran being a good starter, and moreso Feliz now that he's turned back into a pumpkin, Joe Musgrove is a really good pitcher.
I love that he hit the guy after Jhay got hit. Up 5-0, that's the kind of fire I like to see.
Joe Musgrove is a winner (fighter) mentally and has some good stuff. Good choice NH. Hopefully his shoulder and arm holds up.
I love that he hit the guy after Jhay got hit. Up 5-0, that's the kind of fire I like to see.
Joe Musgrove is a winner (fighter) mentally and has some good stuff. Good choice NH. Hopefully his shoulder and arm holds up.
-
rucker59@gmail.com
Arizona game
65647F6E78383F0B0 wrote: Not holding a 1 or 2 run lead is a killer. Not holding 3 or more run leads is an organizational embarrassment.
We all know baseball is a game of endurance; everything has to be earned through the reality of games played daily for six months. It is hard to fool or hide from time.
I truly hate that this is true, but it is the harsh reality of this great game: Time is proving that the Pirate’s run of 2013-2015 was lightening in a bottle, luck. It was not the result of a sustainable plan that can be “turned over” every few years. Everything that looked like genius in 2015 looks like incompetence in 2018.
Remember when Neal could pick out the undervalued rebound? Ray was the “Doctor”? Clint was a players manager that guided the clubhouse into a sanctuary of clam and confidence? The BMT ever assembled was undeniably pretty darn good?
None of that is true. The 2013-1015 teams were good. But it was lightening in a bottle. It was not the result of a sustainable or repeatable planning process. 162 game schedules sort out the pretenders Each season. 100+ years of history sorts out the pretenders over a generation.
Neal is no closer to building a sustainable winner than Dave Littlefield was. Neal caught lightening, but can’t catch it again. I certainly like Neal’s plan better, but there is no magic: baseball is built upon steady superior performance. That comes from the better players. The better players are strategically supplemented with better role players.
For every AJ Happ the Pirates uncover, there is going to be a steady stream of middling millionaires providing, ultimately, a middlingly team. And when the Pirates do uncover AJ Happ, but let him walk after 3 months, a player that could represent a “better player, with steady performances” and replace him yet another project....there is no chance.
2016 represents reality crashing in: building teams around names like Neace and Vogelsong is not a plan at all; it does not build a sustainable winner. No one can build a sustainable plan playing craps. Neal got a lucky on a couple throws of the dice, but the House ALWAYS wins....
I’ve held on to the belief that 2018 was going to be a good, competitive team. I was wrong. It could only work if Neal was a genius and Ray was indeed The Doctor and Clint was Magic. None of these guys are better than their reality: a middling team is bound, ultimately, to playing middling baseball. That’s all there is here. I was wrong this year. I was right in 2016 as I railed against broken trust and broken promises. But I was wrong this year.
Wholesale changes must be made. Neal’s plan, sadly, won’t work. Playing craps is not a plan.
This is why I feel so left down. We were told that the plan was in place and the moves to bolster the roster would be made when the time was right. It was right in 2016. This management team in getting what they deserve. Sorry, I love this team but I'm sick and tired of the BS. The team they have assembled sucks. Plan and simple. The fast start to the season is the only thing keeping them from losing 100 games. Get ready for another long stretch of this. Ownership will now say the fans aren't supporting them so payroll won't increase or worse yet get decreased again. Its always going to be this vicious cycle until we have a real owner.
I have no doubt Neal had a plan AND thought it would work. It doesn’t. I wish it did. But it doesn’t. We can say “it’s a few players in the bullpen” or “starting pitching was not consistent enough” or “Bell/Polanco/whoever” Under performed. It doesn’t matter: I think it’s silly to blame a loss on players who are simply not good enough. It’s up to management to build a team. If management buts a team on the field that’s simply not good enough, the problem goes up to management.
This management, sadly, does not have a sustainable plan that puts a winner on the field regularly. A weak bullpen or rotation or top of the line up or bench or whatever separates the winners from the middlers. If you take a lot of chances or have a lot of unknowns you should expect that there are going to be weak links. This team, bottom line, depends upon taking chances or putting trust into unknowns. It’s the plan management has instituted. It doesn’t appear to be a realistic plan to winning.
For me, the excruciating losses this year hi-light the improbability of building a winning team with too many chances or unknowns on the roster. I still think this could be a good team, but the week links are killing it. I like this team. I think it’s close to being a good team. Unfortunately it has too many “chances or unknowns”. This is on management.
We all know baseball is a game of endurance; everything has to be earned through the reality of games played daily for six months. It is hard to fool or hide from time.
I truly hate that this is true, but it is the harsh reality of this great game: Time is proving that the Pirate’s run of 2013-2015 was lightening in a bottle, luck. It was not the result of a sustainable plan that can be “turned over” every few years. Everything that looked like genius in 2015 looks like incompetence in 2018.
Remember when Neal could pick out the undervalued rebound? Ray was the “Doctor”? Clint was a players manager that guided the clubhouse into a sanctuary of clam and confidence? The BMT ever assembled was undeniably pretty darn good?
None of that is true. The 2013-1015 teams were good. But it was lightening in a bottle. It was not the result of a sustainable or repeatable planning process. 162 game schedules sort out the pretenders Each season. 100+ years of history sorts out the pretenders over a generation.
Neal is no closer to building a sustainable winner than Dave Littlefield was. Neal caught lightening, but can’t catch it again. I certainly like Neal’s plan better, but there is no magic: baseball is built upon steady superior performance. That comes from the better players. The better players are strategically supplemented with better role players.
For every AJ Happ the Pirates uncover, there is going to be a steady stream of middling millionaires providing, ultimately, a middlingly team. And when the Pirates do uncover AJ Happ, but let him walk after 3 months, a player that could represent a “better player, with steady performances” and replace him yet another project....there is no chance.
2016 represents reality crashing in: building teams around names like Neace and Vogelsong is not a plan at all; it does not build a sustainable winner. No one can build a sustainable plan playing craps. Neal got a lucky on a couple throws of the dice, but the House ALWAYS wins....
I’ve held on to the belief that 2018 was going to be a good, competitive team. I was wrong. It could only work if Neal was a genius and Ray was indeed The Doctor and Clint was Magic. None of these guys are better than their reality: a middling team is bound, ultimately, to playing middling baseball. That’s all there is here. I was wrong this year. I was right in 2016 as I railed against broken trust and broken promises. But I was wrong this year.
Wholesale changes must be made. Neal’s plan, sadly, won’t work. Playing craps is not a plan.
This is why I feel so left down. We were told that the plan was in place and the moves to bolster the roster would be made when the time was right. It was right in 2016. This management team in getting what they deserve. Sorry, I love this team but I'm sick and tired of the BS. The team they have assembled sucks. Plan and simple. The fast start to the season is the only thing keeping them from losing 100 games. Get ready for another long stretch of this. Ownership will now say the fans aren't supporting them so payroll won't increase or worse yet get decreased again. Its always going to be this vicious cycle until we have a real owner.
I have no doubt Neal had a plan AND thought it would work. It doesn’t. I wish it did. But it doesn’t. We can say “it’s a few players in the bullpen” or “starting pitching was not consistent enough” or “Bell/Polanco/whoever” Under performed. It doesn’t matter: I think it’s silly to blame a loss on players who are simply not good enough. It’s up to management to build a team. If management buts a team on the field that’s simply not good enough, the problem goes up to management.
This management, sadly, does not have a sustainable plan that puts a winner on the field regularly. A weak bullpen or rotation or top of the line up or bench or whatever separates the winners from the middlers. If you take a lot of chances or have a lot of unknowns you should expect that there are going to be weak links. This team, bottom line, depends upon taking chances or putting trust into unknowns. It’s the plan management has instituted. It doesn’t appear to be a realistic plan to winning.
For me, the excruciating losses this year hi-light the improbability of building a winning team with too many chances or unknowns on the roster. I still think this could be a good team, but the week links are killing it. I like this team. I think it’s close to being a good team. Unfortunately it has too many “chances or unknowns”. This is on management.
-
dogknot17@yahoo.co
Arizona game
74756E7F69292E1A0 wrote:
This is why I feel so left down. We were told that the plan was in place and the moves to bolster the roster would be made when the time was right. It was right in 2016. This management team in getting what they deserve. Sorry, I love this team but I'm sick and tired of the BS. The team they have assembled sucks. Plan and simple. The fast start to the season is the only thing keeping them from losing 100 games. Get ready for another long stretch of this. Ownership will now say the fans aren't supporting them so payroll won't increase or worse yet get decreased again. Its always going to be this vicious cycle until we have a real owner.
The 2016 team lost because McCutchen, Cole, Liriano, Locke and Harrison didn't show up. They had awful years. Awful. Polanco had a better year than McCutchen. Rodriguez had a better year than Harrison. Cervelli was bad and injured and they had four back up catchers playing too much. many experts in general and on this board thought Harrison was better than Walker. No one wanted Alvarez back. That's why they lost.
This is why I feel so left down. We were told that the plan was in place and the moves to bolster the roster would be made when the time was right. It was right in 2016. This management team in getting what they deserve. Sorry, I love this team but I'm sick and tired of the BS. The team they have assembled sucks. Plan and simple. The fast start to the season is the only thing keeping them from losing 100 games. Get ready for another long stretch of this. Ownership will now say the fans aren't supporting them so payroll won't increase or worse yet get decreased again. Its always going to be this vicious cycle until we have a real owner.
The 2016 team lost because McCutchen, Cole, Liriano, Locke and Harrison didn't show up. They had awful years. Awful. Polanco had a better year than McCutchen. Rodriguez had a better year than Harrison. Cervelli was bad and injured and they had four back up catchers playing too much. many experts in general and on this board thought Harrison was better than Walker. No one wanted Alvarez back. That's why they lost.
-
SteadyFreddy
Arizona game
The excuse making from Neal anymore in regards to guys like why Rodriguez is still on the team, and calling Polanco a “Young” player still trying to find his way is getting old and boring as well. The fans aren’t stupid and know what’s going on. But yea I’m with most of you guys on here when I say this team is finished for this season and has no chance of doing anything as far as competing goes. You aren’t going to compete for anything when you have only won 6 games in the last month.