OnlyBucs

494E58505E490E027B5C565A5257155854563B0 wrote: I don't think "For this FO" has much to do with it.  It's just realism. 


You think 5-3 means they’re not in contention?


Well, depends on what the three teams we still have to jump do.



I guess I'm just tired of having everything reduced to the "nutting is cheap" meme. Nutting being cheap does a lot of things, but it doesn't alter mathematics. I'd rather we not push the chips into the table based on a hope. A small move here or there, okay.

32000C0C182A09000D080700610 wrote: I don't think "For this FO" has much to do with it.  It's just realism. 


You think 5-3 means they’re not in contention?


Well, depends on what the three teams we still have to jump do. 



I guess I'm just tired of having everything reduced to the "nutting is cheap" meme.  Nutting being cheap does a lot of things, but it doesn't alter mathematics.  I'd rather we not push the chips into the table based on a hope.  A small move here or there, okay.


You're probably right Sammy. My point was that what fans would consider interesting and a fun last 2 months would not be seen the same way by mgt. And regardless of how tiresome it may get, Nutting IS cheap and shaving payroll seems to be a major priority. Just look at the Nicasio debacle last year to save a little over the minimum salary. So while fans will say a slim chance is better than no chance, mgt will say a slim chance isn't worth paying salaries that could be shed. I don't think every team would look at it that way. But I'm fairly certain Nutting would. But I think if they go 6-2 in the next 8 games, mgt will probably conclude it's worth the risk to keep the team together. But that's a tall order.

My feeling is that with the abysmal attendance this year, ownership will not direct any trade of a good performer that might quell excitement of this run. If they start losing again and they appear to be a serious long-shot for the playoffs, that would be a different story.

496469787F6E79393A0B0 wrote: I don't think "For this FO" has much to do with it.  It's just realism. 


You think 5-3 means they’re not in contention?


Well, depends on what the three teams we still have to jump do. 



I guess I'm just tired of having everything reduced to the "nutting is cheap" meme.  Nutting being cheap does a lot of things, but it doesn't alter mathematics.  I'd rather we not push the chips into the table based on a hope.  A small move here or there, okay.


You're probably right Sammy. My point was that what fans would consider interesting and a fun last 2 months would not be seen the same way by mgt. And regardless of how tiresome it may get, Nutting IS cheap and shaving payroll seems to be a major priority. Just look at the Nicasio debacle last year to save a little over the minimum salary. So while fans will say a slim chance is better than no chance, mgt will say a slim chance isn't worth paying salaries that could be shed. I don't think every team would look at it that way. But I'm fairly certain Nutting would. But I think if they go 6-2 in the next 8 games, mgt will probably conclude it's worth the risk to keep the team together. But that's a tall order.




This is an interesting decision as we are right there on the edge.  If anything, I do not think that that fact will push us to sell, but push us towards not doing much interesting or productive one way or the other.  That's the real natural tendency of the FO if I were to give my biggest complaint about it.  In this one case though it might be understandable.



But if they were to (just say) trade Corey Dickerson for a ML pitcher or even a prospect, the convo will automatically go to how it's just to save money. Even if that isn't the case.

I know I joked about it at the time, but geez after witnessing this unbelievable streak, we should have put in a bid for Machado. I believe we could have matched the Dodgers offer without ripping out the heart of the minors.



Also, the team likely could shed some of its current salary commitments without adversely affecting the team's ability to compete. Although I would expect nearly nothing in return, the Bucs could trade Harrison, particularly if it would help them to add a player in a trade that involved taking on salary.

Based on his performance to date, Kramer and Moroff could replace Harrison without the team losing much.



I will avoid any references to trading all-world Sean Rodriguez and his salary who likely just bought himself another 100 ab's with his performance in Cincinnati.



I also thought about who the Bucs could add. While it sure would be great to get a LH starter, Hamels isn't showing much and Happ has not performed well over the past month. Not sure what other LH starters could be available.



While it likely was an aberrational thought, I was hoping that Kang could show enough in the minors to have him offer an internal boost to the team. Signs of that happening are not looking good at present. I looked at Kang adding value for many of the IF positions. So, what to do ---



While he has been playing RF most of the time in recent years, and never was a very good fielding 3rd baseman, someone who I thought that could help is Nick Castellanos with the Tigers. A RH hitter with some pop who is only owed about $2.5 for the rest of the year and who can play both 3rd and RF. He could split some time with Moran and perhaps hit against some tough lefties instead of Polanco in RF. Don't know if he could learn 1st on the fly to spell Bell now and then.



On to Cleveland. Hope the rain abates enough to let them play the games over the next few days, and that when they do play, for the Bucs to play well. The Indians are in first, but they are only running away with the Division because everyone else is playing so poorly. Bucs would only be 4 games or so out of the Division lead if they were in the AL Central.

Yeah, for once a rental would make sense, for a MI position.

5A6864647042616865606F68090 wrote: I don't think "For this FO" has much to do with it.  It's just realism. 


You think 5-3 means they’re not in contention?


Well, depends on what the three teams we still have to jump do. 



I guess I'm just tired of having everything reduced to the "nutting is cheap" meme.  Nutting being cheap does a lot of things, but it doesn't alter mathematics.  I'd rather we not push the chips into the table based on a hope.  A small move here or there, okay.


You're probably right Sammy. My point was that what fans would consider interesting and a fun last 2 months would not be seen the same way by mgt. And regardless of how tiresome it may get, Nutting IS cheap and shaving payroll seems to be a major priority. Just look at the Nicasio debacle last year to save a little over the minimum salary. So while fans will say a slim chance is better than no chance, mgt will say a slim chance isn't worth paying salaries that could be shed. I don't think every team would look at it that way. But I'm fairly certain Nutting would. But I think if they go 6-2 in the next 8 games, mgt will probably conclude it's worth the risk to keep the team together. But that's a tall order.




This is an interesting decision as we are right there on the edge.  If anything, I do not think that that fact will push us to sell, but push us towards not doing much interesting or productive one way or the other.  That's the real natural tendency of the FO if I were to give my biggest complaint about it.  In this one case though it might be understandable.



But if they were to (just say) trade Corey Dickerson for a ML pitcher or even a prospect, the convo will automatically go to how it's just to save money.  Even if that isn't the case. 




My comment about the FO, I guess similar to Bobster, was to assign 6-2 or better with the “realistic ability to compete.”  Right now, I think the team (and the fans) have earned the right to keep chipping away and see what happens.  I don’t think 5-3, and very possibility 4-4, should change that.  But I don’t know if the FO agrees with my position.  In this case, disagreeing with me does not necessarily make the FO cheap, maybe this is a case where they are simply more conservative then be. 



Ultimately, my strong feeling is that THIS team, from now until the Marte and Polanco contracts run out, this is the best team the Pirates can dream of fielding.  This team may disappoint, Polanco and Marte May revert back; pitching may revert back. Nevertheless, I believe this team has a greater chance of contending then another new team, built from trading pieces of the current team.



So the final way I look at this roster is to consider the next few years. Even if there is no realistic chance for the pirates to advance this year, this is still the core that I’d like to go into next season with.

Fair enough. I'd still be tempted to deal Corey Dickerson ONLY because I think value is at his peak and because there is someone waiting that could provide replacement, and because I think other needs are there. I'd probably chicken out though.