OnlyBucs

I think I have a lower valuation of the trade value the Pirates possess than most here.



Cervelli is one foul ball to the helmet away from having to retire and is owed 10 million next year.



Marte has failed a PED test, faces a year suspension if it happens again, and is owed over thirty million after this season.



Polanco's contract goes to 2023 for over 50 million dollars.



On top of all that, all teams are really reluctant to trade their young players. (Remember rumors about Clint Frazier being part of a Cole trade? He's still with the Yankees even though he is blocked.)



Perhaps Vasquez is is the key. Maybe Dickerson, but I have no idea what return either would bring. But on the whole, I think the franchise lacks the kind of talent to trade for talent that could help them contend.

But what about Meadows?   Yes I certainly disagree on Marte.  If a GM has any level of competency at all, Marte would bring a nice haul of talent.   If Polanco continues to hit, his contract will actually make him more appealing, not less.   Perhaps and off-season trade candidate?



Teams aren't that reluctant to part with young talent.   Yelich brought a top prospect haul of 4 players and  is comparable to Marte as far as player quality. Marte should bring at least two B+ or better prospects.



The rest I agree with.  We don't have to keep Meadows 

I would play as hard-to-get with Vazquez as I could. If nobody wants to pay a premium for him, keep him. Make the Yankees, Red Sox, Astros, Etc bleed until they pass out. Marte, Meadows et al are much more a commodity than a power throwing lefty with so many years of control. Shoot for the moon.

70775B4C5A390 wrote: I would play as hard-to-get with Vazquez as I could.  If nobody wants to pay a premium for him, keep him.  Make the Yankees, Red Sox, Astros, Etc bleed until they pass out.   Marte, Meadows et al are much more a commodity than a power throwing lefty with so many years of control.  Shoot for the moon.


the thing about Vaquez is if you don't get a great offer you can always try again in the off season or next season barring injury or a slump in performance.

The Yankees are going hard after Machado.

They are said to be also looking for bullpen help.

If the Yanks get Machado (Orioles want Sheffield), that would make Andujar available. Would you do an Andujar for Vasquez?

If so, what would you do with Moran?

63464545507B464E4C5B290 wrote: The Yankees are going hard after Machado.

They are said to be also looking for bullpen help.

If the Yanks get Machado (Orioles want Sheffield), that would make Andujar available. Would you do an Andujar for Vasquez?

If so, what would you do with Moran?


Nice idea but the Yanks are looking for a starter to bolster their rotation. Vazquez would be a duplication of Chapman.

715457574269545C5E493B0 wrote: The Yankees are going hard after Machado.

They are said to be also looking for bullpen help.

If the Yanks get Machado (Orioles want Sheffield), that would make Andujar available. Would you do an Andujar for Vasquez?

If so, what would you do with Moran?


I would put him at first base.  He's had some time there before.  I want to know if he can field it better than he can 3b and better than Bell can 1b.    If he can play average or just below average 1b (where his zero range and zero agility is perhaps better hidden), he possibly has a future as a regular or a long-side platoon regular. 



Others disagree with me, I know.  I disliked his inclusion in the Cole trade from the beginning because the only chance he had was if his "swing change" in half a AAA season held true to wash out his poor ancillary skills.     It hasn't at all, and his defense is much worse than advertised, thus making it even harder for him to be valuable.  He has effectively no chance as a starter at 3b, imo.   At least, no chance as a good one.     Switching to 1b may better hide glaring weaknesses.  At the very least, it would increase his positional flexibility as a bench player.   If he can play OK defense at 1b, if his bat develops into a 120ish OPS+ vs RHP, he can be useful in a long side-platoon until an everyday solution is found. Though that search has gone on almost uninterrupted for 30 years now? Possibly more.



(Caveat:  The Cole Trade still has an OK chance of turning out for us.  Musgrove, I think and hope, has a real shot at something good, and Martin looks really, REALLY good)    

I must admit, I am endlessly confused and amazed that a team that is supposedly built on pitching (NH's focus from the beginning) continues which such abysmal fielding. Who knows whether the pitchers are any good? They are left in so many unnecessary situations where good defense would have them resting on the bench. Unless a ball is hit right at a fielder and isn't considered 'too hot to handle,' it is charged to the pitcher as a hit. There are no errors anymore. Rant, rant, rant . . .

6163797F690C0 wrote: I must admit, I am endlessly confused and amazed that a team that is supposedly built on pitching (NH's focus from the beginning) continues which such abysmal fielding. Who knows whether the pitchers are any good? They are left in so many unnecessary situations where good defense would have them resting on the bench. Unless a ball is hit right at a fielder and isn't considered 'too hot to handle,' it is charged to the pitcher as a hit. There are no errors anymore. Rant, rant, rant . . .


a few years ago (when we were winning) the defense was good.

4A7874746052717875707F78190 wrote: I must admit, I am endlessly confused and amazed that a team that is supposedly built on pitching (NH's focus from the beginning) continues which such abysmal fielding. Who knows whether the pitchers are any good? They are left in so many unnecessary situations where good defense would have them resting on the bench. Unless a ball is hit right at a fielder and isn't considered 'too hot to handle,' it is charged to the pitcher as a hit. There are no errors anymore. Rant, rant, rant . . .


a few years ago (when we were winning) the defense was good.


Not when the ball was hit or thrown to Alvarez.