Defense metrics show Moran was the 2nd worst 3Bman in MLB last year. I think the Pirates would be delighted if Moran could be an average defender. [/quote
But he can't, so he is worthless, might be of some value at 1st as Bell looks as bad or worse there as last year. Pretty hard to understand how he is batting 4th in the lineup, he must be showing more in BP cause he sure isn't showing anything in live/real games.
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
I am not a Cole fan by any stretch, I am a Pirates fan through and through. I just feel our organization gets taken advantaged of by other organizations is all. Starts with Nutting who hand ties Huntington and then Huntington does his best I guess. It seems whenever we trade someone when we have to we get marginalized. And when we trade for someone we overpay. Oh well.
Hope we can hang for the division this year. Let's Go Bucs.
Hope we can hang for the division this year. Let's Go Bucs.
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Bobster21
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
2826232A3C352A2A4F0 wrote: I am not a Cole fan by any stretch, I am a Pirates fan through and through. I just feel our organization gets taken advantaged of by other organizations is all. Starts with Nutting who hand ties Huntington and then Huntington does his best I guess. It seems whenever we trade someone when we have to we get marginalized. And when we trade for someone we overpay. Oh well.
Hope we can hang for the division this year. Let's Go Bucs.
A big issue in the return on any trade is that the Pirates are always trying to avoid high salaries. I think they would prefer several minimal salaries players to an accomplished, productive player who come with a big contract. We'll never know who they might discuss in trades but I suspect if a team offered them a productive player with a big contract, NH would say, "Nah, who else ya got?" Even Archer is not a high salaried player as proven pitchers go. And he makes less than they were paying Nova so they cut payroll even with that trade. NH said the other day that when they look to possibly add players, it has to be within their "model" and "what we have to operate within." That leaves out high paid players who the fans would love to see in a Pirate uniform. Which often leaves the fans feeling they didn't get a good return in a trade.
Hope we can hang for the division this year. Let's Go Bucs.
A big issue in the return on any trade is that the Pirates are always trying to avoid high salaries. I think they would prefer several minimal salaries players to an accomplished, productive player who come with a big contract. We'll never know who they might discuss in trades but I suspect if a team offered them a productive player with a big contract, NH would say, "Nah, who else ya got?" Even Archer is not a high salaried player as proven pitchers go. And he makes less than they were paying Nova so they cut payroll even with that trade. NH said the other day that when they look to possibly add players, it has to be within their "model" and "what we have to operate within." That leaves out high paid players who the fans would love to see in a Pirate uniform. Which often leaves the fans feeling they didn't get a good return in a trade.
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
I agree with you Bobster. This next new collective bargaining agreement, once agreed to, will tell us a lot on how long Nutting remains owner.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3611
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
7C72777E68617E7E1B0 wrote: I agree with you Bobster. This next new collective bargaining agreement, once agreed to, will tell us a lot on how long Nutting remains owner.
I agree with you guys the next collective bargaining agreement will determine if Nutting decides to sell, or play within the terms under the agreement. I really think the players will want some type of yearly spending floor in order that teams must spend to a certain level to avoid team tanking.
I agree with you guys the next collective bargaining agreement will determine if Nutting decides to sell, or play within the terms under the agreement. I really think the players will want some type of yearly spending floor in order that teams must spend to a certain level to avoid team tanking.
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
6E7357555B3E0 wrote: We didn't trade a Cy Young candidate in Cole at the time. He was a hot mess. He was coming off 2 years of average performance and injuries. He also looked (as he did last night, apparently) as a guy with great stuff but not the mentality to keep it together. There is a reason we only got those four guys in the trade at the time. And it wasn't all on NH.
Yes. It was. The GM's guy got traded for the GM's haul. It's on him. That's why he's the GM
Yes. It was. The GM's guy got traded for the GM's haul. It's on him. That's why he's the GM
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
040D05141A600 wrote: We didn't trade a Cy Young candidate in Cole at the time. He was a hot mess. He was coming off 2 years of average performance and injuries. He also looked (as he did last night, apparently) as a guy with great stuff but not the mentality to keep it together. There is a reason we only got those four guys in the trade at the time. And it wasn't all on NH.
Yes. It was. The GM's guy got traded for the GM's haul. It's on him. That's why he's the GM
Yes it is on the GM no question. It's his job to assess what his players are worth.
Yes. It was. The GM's guy got traded for the GM's haul. It's on him. That's why he's the GM
Yes it is on the GM no question. It's his job to assess what his players are worth.
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
I was very okay with trading Cole.
The main issue that I see with the trade is Moran. Everyone who watches a game can see that he has no range and limited agility and that he offers no defense at third. How could Pirate scouts similarly not see such? Further, rather than having a power bat he appears to have more of a powder puff bat; Tuesday's hits notwithstanding.
I am hoping that Musgrove can develop into a dependable starter, but I believe his better long-term future is as a reliever. He seems to wear down as a game progresses and has Cole's past propensity for one bad inning (just my recollection and not based on any review of statistics).
Feliz was a reasonable gamble. I doubt Martin is ever more than a sub in the majors.
Lastly, with Hayes on the horizon and Kang (maybe) being a productive player again, Moran likely has lost his opportunity to carve out a role for himself in Pittsburgh, and no other team is going to offer anything of value based on his performance to date.
The main issue that I see with the trade is Moran. Everyone who watches a game can see that he has no range and limited agility and that he offers no defense at third. How could Pirate scouts similarly not see such? Further, rather than having a power bat he appears to have more of a powder puff bat; Tuesday's hits notwithstanding.
I am hoping that Musgrove can develop into a dependable starter, but I believe his better long-term future is as a reliever. He seems to wear down as a game progresses and has Cole's past propensity for one bad inning (just my recollection and not based on any review of statistics).
Feliz was a reasonable gamble. I doubt Martin is ever more than a sub in the majors.
Lastly, with Hayes on the horizon and Kang (maybe) being a productive player again, Moran likely has lost his opportunity to carve out a role for himself in Pittsburgh, and no other team is going to offer anything of value based on his performance to date.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
123E36313A1D2A3C2C5F0 wrote: I was very okay with trading Cole.
The main issue that I see with the trade is Moran. Everyone who watches a game can see that he has no range and limited agility and that he offers no defense at third. How could Pirate scouts similarly not see such? Further, rather than having a power bat he appears to have more of a powder puff bat; Tuesday's hits notwithstanding.
I am hoping that Musgrove can develop into a dependable starter, but I believe his better long-term future is as a reliever. He seems to wear down as a game progresses and has Cole's past propensity for one bad inning (just my recollection and not based on any review of statistics).
Feliz was a reasonable gamble. I doubt Martin is ever more than a sub in the majors.
Lastly, with Hayes on the horizon and Kang (maybe) being a productive player again, Moran likely has lost his opportunity to carve out a role for himself in Pittsburgh, and no other team is going to offer anything of value based on his performance to date.
I agree that Moran has no future at 3rd but I believe we have a huge hole at 1st and that's where his future is in Pittsburgh. I after watching Bell's few abs this year am more convinced than ever he will not ever be the hitter we had hoped and his defense is awful. After listening to the ESPN crew the other night they were saying Moran was crushing the ball in BP. I think he very well might solve our long long absence of a good power hitting 1st baseman. Bell looks more and more like a failure, please move him out of the clean up spot and move Kang there and take a long look at Moran at 1st.
The main issue that I see with the trade is Moran. Everyone who watches a game can see that he has no range and limited agility and that he offers no defense at third. How could Pirate scouts similarly not see such? Further, rather than having a power bat he appears to have more of a powder puff bat; Tuesday's hits notwithstanding.
I am hoping that Musgrove can develop into a dependable starter, but I believe his better long-term future is as a reliever. He seems to wear down as a game progresses and has Cole's past propensity for one bad inning (just my recollection and not based on any review of statistics).
Feliz was a reasonable gamble. I doubt Martin is ever more than a sub in the majors.
Lastly, with Hayes on the horizon and Kang (maybe) being a productive player again, Moran likely has lost his opportunity to carve out a role for himself in Pittsburgh, and no other team is going to offer anything of value based on his performance to date.
I agree that Moran has no future at 3rd but I believe we have a huge hole at 1st and that's where his future is in Pittsburgh. I after watching Bell's few abs this year am more convinced than ever he will not ever be the hitter we had hoped and his defense is awful. After listening to the ESPN crew the other night they were saying Moran was crushing the ball in BP. I think he very well might solve our long long absence of a good power hitting 1st baseman. Bell looks more and more like a failure, please move him out of the clean up spot and move Kang there and take a long look at Moran at 1st.
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maher.timothy20@gm
Boy...that Cole deal is looking worse with each Cole start
I hate to say it but you're probably right. Wouldn't give up on Bell just yet but the early returns suck. Was watching Aaron Judge bat yesterday--such a simple stance, just gets up there and gets it done. Bell is flailing all over the place. I'm wondering if a trip to the minors would do him good.