494E5F4C5F0E033A0 wrote: I noted it on a prior message, but I think the Bucs should permit Archer to throw 115 to 118 pitches. Since he was acquired last year his pitch count is something that I have watched. Due to strikeouts, and a few full counts during his outing he is close to 100 pitches around the fifth or sixth inning. The new policy in baseball for a starting pitcher to throw about 100 pitches does not work for Archer. Let him throw some additional pitches to see whether he can get through the 7th inning, and then turn the game over to the bullpen.
I agree. There has never been evidence that 100 pitches is the ideal number for health reasons. It's merely a nice round number. Usually. it's only enough for 5 or 6 innings, which taxes the BP. 120 is also a nice round number, and it would enable an effective pitcher to remain in the game another inning or 2.
I would think that there is good evidence that pitchers are less effective throwing pitch number 115 the 4th time through the order. Hence the BP usage is different than it was 10-20 years ago. I have no direct evidence you guys are wrong but I believe you are . His ERA would IMO sell even higher if he was just left out there until he finished 7 innings . Bottom line is he's just not that good ?
I think you are right about the 4th time thru the order but F is right that he hasn't encountered that much. I think he should be able to make it through the order 3 times consistently (if he is any good).
Chris Archer
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
-
steve49
Chris Archer
795F5E495F4F3C0 wrote: I noted it on a prior message, but I think the Bucs should permit Archer to throw 115 to 118 pitches. Since he was acquired last year his pitch count is something that I have watched. Due to strikeouts, and a few full counts during his outing he is close to 100 pitches around the fifth or sixth inning. The new policy in baseball for a starting pitcher to throw about 100 pitches does not work for Archer. Let him throw some additional pitches to see whether he can get through the 7th inning, and then turn the game over to the bullpen.
I agree. There has never been evidence that 100 pitches is the ideal number for health reasons. It's merely a nice round number. Usually. it's only enough for 5 or 6 innings, which taxes the BP. 120 is also a nice round number, and it would enable an effective pitcher to remain in the game another inning or 2.
I would think that there is good evidence that pitchers are less effective throwing pitch number 115 the 4th time through the order. Hence the BP usage is different than it was 10-20 years ago. I have no direct evidence you guys are wrong but I believe you are . His ERA would IMO sell even higher if he was just left out there until he finished 7 innings . Bottom line is he's just not that good ?
I think you are right about the 4th time thru the order but F is right that he hasn't encountered that much. I think he should be able to make it through the order 3 times consistently (if he is any good).
Fair enough and I thought about writing the "4th" a bit after I wrote it.
To that I'll say if the man for the last 3-4 years has an era of over 4 throwing 100 pitches a game , why should we believe his metrics would come down going another 20 pitches ? Not trying to be difficult but for a good discussion we need people on both sides . Since I hated this from the beginning , I'll take the side he's just not that good and is what he is.
I agree. There has never been evidence that 100 pitches is the ideal number for health reasons. It's merely a nice round number. Usually. it's only enough for 5 or 6 innings, which taxes the BP. 120 is also a nice round number, and it would enable an effective pitcher to remain in the game another inning or 2.
I would think that there is good evidence that pitchers are less effective throwing pitch number 115 the 4th time through the order. Hence the BP usage is different than it was 10-20 years ago. I have no direct evidence you guys are wrong but I believe you are . His ERA would IMO sell even higher if he was just left out there until he finished 7 innings . Bottom line is he's just not that good ?
I think you are right about the 4th time thru the order but F is right that he hasn't encountered that much. I think he should be able to make it through the order 3 times consistently (if he is any good).
Fair enough and I thought about writing the "4th" a bit after I wrote it.
To that I'll say if the man for the last 3-4 years has an era of over 4 throwing 100 pitches a game , why should we believe his metrics would come down going another 20 pitches ? Not trying to be difficult but for a good discussion we need people on both sides . Since I hated this from the beginning , I'll take the side he's just not that good and is what he is.
-
Bobster21
Chris Archer
5F58495A4918152C0 wrote: I noted it on a prior message, but I think the Bucs should permit Archer to throw 115 to 118 pitches. Since he was acquired last year his pitch count is something that I have watched. Due to strikeouts, and a few full counts during his outing he is close to 100 pitches around the fifth or sixth inning. The new policy in baseball for a starting pitcher to throw about 100 pitches does not work for Archer. Let him throw some additional pitches to see whether he can get through the 7th inning, and then turn the game over to the bullpen.
I agree. There has never been evidence that 100 pitches is the ideal number for health reasons. It's merely a nice round number. Usually. it's only enough for 5 or 6 innings, which taxes the BP. 120 is also a nice round number, and it would enable an effective pitcher to remain in the game another inning or 2.
I would think that there is good evidence that pitchers are less effective throwing pitch number 115 the 4th time through the order. Hence the BP usage is different than it was 10-20 years ago. I have no direct evidence you guys are wrong but I believe you are . His ERA would IMO sell even higher if he was just left out there until he finished 7 innings . Bottom line is he's just not that good ?
I think you are right about the 4th time thru the order but F is right that he hasn't encountered that much. I think he should be able to make it through the order 3 times consistently (if he is any good).
Fair enough and I thought about writing the "4th" a bit after I wrote it.
To that I'll say if the man for the last 3-4 years has an era of over 4 throwing 100 pitches a game , why should we believe his metrics would come down going another 20 pitches ? Not trying to be difficult but for a good discussion we need people on both sides . Since I hated this from the beginning , I'll take the side he's just not that good and is what he is.
I don't think it's about improving his metrics. It's just a matter of not automatically removing him at 100 pitches if he's doing well and it's only the 5th or 6th inning. He tends to reach 100 pitches early. But if he's going well, I would let him continue. No sense taxing the BP just because he reached 100 if it's only the 5th inning. If he struggles in the next inning, take him out. But why risk putting in a reliever who just might not have it that day if the guy he's replacing was effective and the only reason he's being removed is because of the pitch count?
I agree. There has never been evidence that 100 pitches is the ideal number for health reasons. It's merely a nice round number. Usually. it's only enough for 5 or 6 innings, which taxes the BP. 120 is also a nice round number, and it would enable an effective pitcher to remain in the game another inning or 2.
I would think that there is good evidence that pitchers are less effective throwing pitch number 115 the 4th time through the order. Hence the BP usage is different than it was 10-20 years ago. I have no direct evidence you guys are wrong but I believe you are . His ERA would IMO sell even higher if he was just left out there until he finished 7 innings . Bottom line is he's just not that good ?
I think you are right about the 4th time thru the order but F is right that he hasn't encountered that much. I think he should be able to make it through the order 3 times consistently (if he is any good).
Fair enough and I thought about writing the "4th" a bit after I wrote it.
To that I'll say if the man for the last 3-4 years has an era of over 4 throwing 100 pitches a game , why should we believe his metrics would come down going another 20 pitches ? Not trying to be difficult but for a good discussion we need people on both sides . Since I hated this from the beginning , I'll take the side he's just not that good and is what he is.
I don't think it's about improving his metrics. It's just a matter of not automatically removing him at 100 pitches if he's doing well and it's only the 5th or 6th inning. He tends to reach 100 pitches early. But if he's going well, I would let him continue. No sense taxing the BP just because he reached 100 if it's only the 5th inning. If he struggles in the next inning, take him out. But why risk putting in a reliever who just might not have it that day if the guy he's replacing was effective and the only reason he's being removed is because of the pitch count?
-
steve49
Chris Archer
684548595E4F58181B2A0 wrote: I noted it on a prior message, but I think the Bucs should permit Archer to throw 115 to 118 pitches. Since he was acquired last year his pitch count is something that I have watched. Due to strikeouts, and a few full counts during his outing he is close to 100 pitches around the fifth or sixth inning. The new policy in baseball for a starting pitcher to throw about 100 pitches does not work for Archer. Let him throw some additional pitches to see whether he can get through the 7th inning, and then turn the game over to the bullpen.
I agree. There has never been evidence that 100 pitches is the ideal number for health reasons. It's merely a nice round number. Usually. it's only enough for 5 or 6 innings, which taxes the BP. 120 is also a nice round number, and it would enable an effective pitcher to remain in the game another inning or 2.
I would think that there is good evidence that pitchers are less effective throwing pitch number 115 the 4th time through the order. Hence the BP usage is different than it was 10-20 years ago. I have no direct evidence you guys are wrong but I believe you are . His ERA would IMO sell even higher if he was just left out there until he finished 7 innings . Bottom line is he's just not that good ?
I think you are right about the 4th time thru the order but F is right that he hasn't encountered that much. I think he should be able to make it through the order 3 times consistently (if he is any good).
Fair enough and I thought about writing the "4th" a bit after I wrote it.
To that I'll say if the man for the last 3-4 years has an era of over 4 throwing 100 pitches a game , why should we believe his metrics would come down going another 20 pitches ? Not trying to be difficult but for a good discussion we need people on both sides . Since I hated this from the beginning , I'll take the side he's just not that good and is what he is.
I don't think it's about improving his metrics. It's just a matter of not automatically removing him at 100 pitches if he's doing well and it's only the 5th or 6th inning. He tends to reach 100 pitches early. But if he's going well, I would let him continue. No sense taxing the BP just because he reached 100 if it's only the 5th inning. If he struggles in the next inning, take him out. But why risk putting in a reliever who just might not have it that day if the guy he's replacing was effective and the only reason he's being removed is because of the pitch count?
Totally agree with that. I read the thread to earlier say that Hurdle should let him throw 120 pitches in most instances. Probably I misinterpreted . Yeah if he still has good stuff and is at 100 pitches , I agree that it's not automatic that he should be removed.
I agree. There has never been evidence that 100 pitches is the ideal number for health reasons. It's merely a nice round number. Usually. it's only enough for 5 or 6 innings, which taxes the BP. 120 is also a nice round number, and it would enable an effective pitcher to remain in the game another inning or 2.
I would think that there is good evidence that pitchers are less effective throwing pitch number 115 the 4th time through the order. Hence the BP usage is different than it was 10-20 years ago. I have no direct evidence you guys are wrong but I believe you are . His ERA would IMO sell even higher if he was just left out there until he finished 7 innings . Bottom line is he's just not that good ?
I think you are right about the 4th time thru the order but F is right that he hasn't encountered that much. I think he should be able to make it through the order 3 times consistently (if he is any good).
Fair enough and I thought about writing the "4th" a bit after I wrote it.
To that I'll say if the man for the last 3-4 years has an era of over 4 throwing 100 pitches a game , why should we believe his metrics would come down going another 20 pitches ? Not trying to be difficult but for a good discussion we need people on both sides . Since I hated this from the beginning , I'll take the side he's just not that good and is what he is.
I don't think it's about improving his metrics. It's just a matter of not automatically removing him at 100 pitches if he's doing well and it's only the 5th or 6th inning. He tends to reach 100 pitches early. But if he's going well, I would let him continue. No sense taxing the BP just because he reached 100 if it's only the 5th inning. If he struggles in the next inning, take him out. But why risk putting in a reliever who just might not have it that day if the guy he's replacing was effective and the only reason he's being removed is because of the pitch count?
Totally agree with that. I read the thread to earlier say that Hurdle should let him throw 120 pitches in most instances. Probably I misinterpreted . Yeah if he still has good stuff and is at 100 pitches , I agree that it's not automatic that he should be removed.
-
Bobster21
Chris Archer
383F2E3D2E7F724B0 wrote: I noted it on a prior message, but I think the Bucs should permit Archer to throw 115 to 118 pitches. Since he was acquired last year his pitch count is something that I have watched. Due to strikeouts, and a few full counts during his outing he is close to 100 pitches around the fifth or sixth inning. The new policy in baseball for a starting pitcher to throw about 100 pitches does not work for Archer. Let him throw some additional pitches to see whether he can get through the 7th inning, and then turn the game over to the bullpen.
I agree. There has never been evidence that 100 pitches is the ideal number for health reasons. It's merely a nice round number. Usually. it's only enough for 5 or 6 innings, which taxes the BP. 120 is also a nice round number, and it would enable an effective pitcher to remain in the game another inning or 2.
I would think that there is good evidence that pitchers are less effective throwing pitch number 115 the 4th time through the order. Hence the BP usage is different than it was 10-20 years ago. I have no direct evidence you guys are wrong but I believe you are . His ERA would IMO sell even higher if he was just left out there until he finished 7 innings . Bottom line is he's just not that good ?
I think you are right about the 4th time thru the order but F is right that he hasn't encountered that much. I think he should be able to make it through the order 3 times consistently (if he is any good).
Fair enough and I thought about writing the "4th" a bit after I wrote it.
To that I'll say if the man for the last 3-4 years has an era of over 4 throwing 100 pitches a game , why should we believe his metrics would come down going another 20 pitches ? Not trying to be difficult but for a good discussion we need people on both sides . Since I hated this from the beginning , I'll take the side he's just not that good and is what he is.
I don't think it's about improving his metrics. It's just a matter of not automatically removing him at 100 pitches if he's doing well and it's only the 5th or 6th inning. He tends to reach 100 pitches early. But if he's going well, I would let him continue. No sense taxing the BP just because he reached 100 if it's only the 5th inning. If he struggles in the next inning, take him out. But why risk putting in a reliever who just might not have it that day if the guy he's replacing was effective and the only reason he's being removed is because of the pitch count?
Totally agree with that. I read the thread to earlier say that Hurdle should let him throw 120 pitches in most instances. Probably I misinterpreted . Yeah if he still has good stuff and is at 100 pitches , I agree that it's not automatic that he should be removed.
A few years ago someone asked Bob Veale what he thought about pitched counts. He laughed and said he was just getting warmed up at 100 pitches.
I agree. There has never been evidence that 100 pitches is the ideal number for health reasons. It's merely a nice round number. Usually. it's only enough for 5 or 6 innings, which taxes the BP. 120 is also a nice round number, and it would enable an effective pitcher to remain in the game another inning or 2.
I would think that there is good evidence that pitchers are less effective throwing pitch number 115 the 4th time through the order. Hence the BP usage is different than it was 10-20 years ago. I have no direct evidence you guys are wrong but I believe you are . His ERA would IMO sell even higher if he was just left out there until he finished 7 innings . Bottom line is he's just not that good ?
I think you are right about the 4th time thru the order but F is right that he hasn't encountered that much. I think he should be able to make it through the order 3 times consistently (if he is any good).
Fair enough and I thought about writing the "4th" a bit after I wrote it.
To that I'll say if the man for the last 3-4 years has an era of over 4 throwing 100 pitches a game , why should we believe his metrics would come down going another 20 pitches ? Not trying to be difficult but for a good discussion we need people on both sides . Since I hated this from the beginning , I'll take the side he's just not that good and is what he is.
I don't think it's about improving his metrics. It's just a matter of not automatically removing him at 100 pitches if he's doing well and it's only the 5th or 6th inning. He tends to reach 100 pitches early. But if he's going well, I would let him continue. No sense taxing the BP just because he reached 100 if it's only the 5th inning. If he struggles in the next inning, take him out. But why risk putting in a reliever who just might not have it that day if the guy he's replacing was effective and the only reason he's being removed is because of the pitch count?
Totally agree with that. I read the thread to earlier say that Hurdle should let him throw 120 pitches in most instances. Probably I misinterpreted . Yeah if he still has good stuff and is at 100 pitches , I agree that it's not automatic that he should be removed.
A few years ago someone asked Bob Veale what he thought about pitched counts. He laughed and said he was just getting warmed up at 100 pitches.
-
fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3495
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
Chris Archer
Sounds like Archer to return to the rotation on Wednesday as noted by Adam Berry.
Chris Archer
4A46471C151C14191E011B2C0 wrote: Sounds like Archer to return to the rotation on Wednesday as noted by Adam Berry.
I hope that is because he is ready and not because they need him due to lack of depth. If the latter, he’ll be back on the IL before long.
I hope that is because he is ready and not because they need him due to lack of depth. If the latter, he’ll be back on the IL before long.
-
Bobster21
Chris Archer
0215033422222E410 wrote: Sounds like Archer to return to the rotation on Wednesday as noted by Adam Berry.
I hope that is because he is ready and not because they need him due to lack of depth. If the latter, he’ll be back on the IL before long.
He pitched a simulated game a few days ago and said his thumb felt fine. He said he would be ready to rejoin the rotation 5 days from his simulated game. That's the schedule he's on.
I hope that is because he is ready and not because they need him due to lack of depth. If the latter, he’ll be back on the IL before long.
He pitched a simulated game a few days ago and said his thumb felt fine. He said he would be ready to rejoin the rotation 5 days from his simulated game. That's the schedule he's on.