Clint Hurdle
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:44 pm
725455425444370 wrote: Hurdle retires as one of the most successful Managers in Pirate history. He joins Murtaugh, Tanner, Leyland. More importantly he was a pillar of the community and was very active in charitable organizations in Pittsburgh. I wish him well in his retirement and hope one day he will make an appearance at PNC Park and receives a nice ovation.
That's feint praise. 735 wins, 4 winning seasons in 9 years, no division champs, 1 WC win, 1 playoff loss, 2 WC losses.
But that's not too far off from Leyland who had 851 wins, 4 winning seasons in 11 years. But Leyland had 3 division winners, tho he lost all 3 ensuing playoffs.
Tanner had 711 wins, 6 winning seasons in 10 years, 1 division winner, 1 playoff win, 1 WS championship.
Murtaugh had 1,115 wins. In 15 seasons (including 2 partial seasons), he had 10 winning years, 4 losing years and 1 even. He had 2 WS champs, 4 division winners, 1 playoff winner.
And then there's Fred Clarke who won 1,422 games with 4 pennant winners an 1 WS winner.
So while I would agree that numerically, Hurdle is one of their most successful managers, the gap between he, Clarke, Tanner and Murtaugh is huge. A sad state of afairs that a manager who never won a division or a playoff is one of the franchises most "successful." No one questions Hurdle's character but as a manager he didn't accomplish a lot.
I don't think the gap between Hurdle and Tanner is very large. The difference is in the gm's.
Looking only at wins: 735 to 711 it's close. But Tanner won a division. Hurdle never did. Tanner won his only playoff. Hurdle lost his only playoff. Tanner won a World Series. Hurdle never got close. IMHO, anytime you add a WS championship to a team's legacy, you've made a dramatic accomplishment. Hurdle's main accomplishment was more of an indictment of the team's past. He accomplished having winning seasons after 20 years of losing. He accomplished getting to the post season after a 20 year drought although he had very little success there-1 WC win followed by a playoff loss and then 2 WC losses. Considering the team Hurdle inherited, it was a great achievement. But if he had taken over a competitive team and only had 1 WC win to show for it, he wouldn't have much of a legacy. So while I agree that his accomplishments excited a success starved fan base, the level of the team's success under Hurdle pales in comparison to teams of Clarke, Murtaugh and Tanner, who achieved what Hurdle's never got close to.
That's feint praise. 735 wins, 4 winning seasons in 9 years, no division champs, 1 WC win, 1 playoff loss, 2 WC losses.
But that's not too far off from Leyland who had 851 wins, 4 winning seasons in 11 years. But Leyland had 3 division winners, tho he lost all 3 ensuing playoffs.
Tanner had 711 wins, 6 winning seasons in 10 years, 1 division winner, 1 playoff win, 1 WS championship.
Murtaugh had 1,115 wins. In 15 seasons (including 2 partial seasons), he had 10 winning years, 4 losing years and 1 even. He had 2 WS champs, 4 division winners, 1 playoff winner.
And then there's Fred Clarke who won 1,422 games with 4 pennant winners an 1 WS winner.
So while I would agree that numerically, Hurdle is one of their most successful managers, the gap between he, Clarke, Tanner and Murtaugh is huge. A sad state of afairs that a manager who never won a division or a playoff is one of the franchises most "successful." No one questions Hurdle's character but as a manager he didn't accomplish a lot.
I don't think the gap between Hurdle and Tanner is very large. The difference is in the gm's.
Looking only at wins: 735 to 711 it's close. But Tanner won a division. Hurdle never did. Tanner won his only playoff. Hurdle lost his only playoff. Tanner won a World Series. Hurdle never got close. IMHO, anytime you add a WS championship to a team's legacy, you've made a dramatic accomplishment. Hurdle's main accomplishment was more of an indictment of the team's past. He accomplished having winning seasons after 20 years of losing. He accomplished getting to the post season after a 20 year drought although he had very little success there-1 WC win followed by a playoff loss and then 2 WC losses. Considering the team Hurdle inherited, it was a great achievement. But if he had taken over a competitive team and only had 1 WC win to show for it, he wouldn't have much of a legacy. So while I agree that his accomplishments excited a success starved fan base, the level of the team's success under Hurdle pales in comparison to teams of Clarke, Murtaugh and Tanner, who achieved what Hurdle's never got close to.