OnlyBucs

"The negativity surrounding the current situation isn't the problem.  That's just part of being a fan.  Rather than negativity, it's apathy from fans that the organization should worry about.  When fans stop caring, death is near."Doc



That hits the nail on the head and something I have been seeing the last couple of years. Long time spring season ticket holders that I have become friends with have simply walked away from the Pirates because they have given up. They decided not to spend their money on an organization that refuses to invest at a level where they might be able to win. I came close to making the same decision this year and the only reason I decided to renew was the changing of the guard. I wanted to see if there would be significant changes. At this point, it seems there has been little change but to be fair I will give them some time to see what they can do. I just turned 72 and have followed the Pirates pretty much from the beginning so walking away is not an easy decision.

5305130708120209041321060C00080D4F02610 wrote: I've loved baseball longer than anything in my 67 years, except for my parents and siblings, of course.  It's such a big part of who I am, and my interest in it, especially the Pirates, will never waiver.  I suspect almost all of us are the same.



The negativity surrounding the current situation isn't the problem.  That's just part of being a fan.  Rather than negativity, it's apathy from fans that the organization should worry about.  When fans stop caring, death is near.



Admittedly, I'm grateful to have Major League Baseball in Pittsburgh.  Perhaps I've taken it for granted.  But I want them to try to win.  I realize that small market franchises have longer odds, but it's not impossible, and market size doesn't excuse an owner from not trying.  Tampa and Oakland have proven time and again that success can happen.



My outlook for this season is dim because the Front Office is starting over with a roster and farm system that are wanting, to be kind.  The one thing I'm most happy about, and gives me hope, is that Coonelly, Huntington, and Hurdle are gone.  They were the wrong people who, I thought, had given up.  That's likely because of the owner, who remains a roadblock to success.  But I also believe that the right people in the Front Office can overcome a bad owner.



To me, it's not enough to just simply have a ball team in town.  The organization has to try to win.  That's the objective.  It's obvious, by his actions, that the owner doesn't have that as his primary goal.  Over the last four years, in particular, that permeated throughout the organization.  I just hope these new guys are immune to it.   
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Exactly, I have been a Pirate fan my whole lifetime. I raised my sons to be Pirate fans. 2 weeks ago my son came home to visit us from Columbus and he was wearing a Cleveland Indians hat. It definitely had an impact on me, so I asked him whats with the Indians hat? He said "at least the Indians are trying to win".

There's a difference between that, and trashing the new guys before a single real game has even been played yet, though.

7E4C40405466454C41444B4C2D0 wrote: There's a difference between that, and trashing the new guys before a single real game has even been played yet, though.




I don't want to trash the new guys but I think Nutting still deserves trashing.



It is pretty clear that Ben C. is starting over and doesn't have any sort of instructions or budget to try and produce a winning team in even a couple of seasons.



I find that disappointing after missing the post season for 4 years in a row.

486E6F786E7E0D0 wrote: There's a difference between that, and trashing the new guys before a single real game has even been played yet, though.




I don't want to trash the new guys but I think Nutting still deserves trashing.



It is pretty clear that Ben C. is starting over and doesn't have any sort of instructions or budget to try and produce a winning team in even a couple of seasons.



I find that disappointing after missing the post season for 4 years in a row. 






I mean I get it, and I'm usually the last person to look in the bright side of things. Yeah, I think next few months or more will be interesting to see what what we have and what sort of strategy they're meaning to use.

02303C3C281A39303D383730510 wrote: There's a difference between that, and trashing the new guys before a single real game has even been played yet, though.




I don't want to trash the new guys but I think Nutting still deserves trashing.



It is pretty clear that Ben C. is starting over and doesn't have any sort of instructions or budget to try and produce a winning team in even a couple of seasons.



I find that disappointing after missing the post season for 4 years in a row. 






I mean I get it, and I'm usually the last person to look in the bright side of things.  Yeah, I think next few months or more will be interesting to see what what we have and what sort of strategy they're meaning to use.




I'm glad Ben C. is there rather than Neal. I think Ben can be a much better g.m. If anybody can put a good system in place he can.



However, I think Ben C. is good enough to have gotten the Bucs back into contention by 2021 if that was goal.



Apparently, Nutting is very willing to take the slow boat, which as a fan is more than disappointing to me (want to say insulting but not sure that is correct).

1C2E22223604272E2326292E4F0 wrote: There's a difference between that, and trashing the new guys before a single real game has even been played yet, though.


I agree. I'd like to know what those who are trashing BC, what they would have done? We don't have one single player who can garner one super top prospect, let alone multiple ones. People are delusional thinking Bell, Reynolds, Frazier are going to bring in some sort of haul. Bell has had one half season, and he can't even play a position. He's not even prime DH material. I've seen people throw Archer's name around. You mean the same guy who's been trashed since he came here....is all of a sudden the guy to trade for major prospects?



BC inherited a complete ship storm. Yes, most of that can fall on the guy on top. So here's the reality. Stay a Pirates fan, or move the fuq on. it isn't going to change in a year or two. Let us not forget, there are at least two people getting paid that aren't even working for the Pirates. They couldn't sign a Vogelsong right now if they wanted until that money is cleared off the books.



Pray that BC knows how to draft, and can take advantage of a number of years at the top, unlike the previous guy. That's all the hope we have. Money isn't going to start coming out of anyone's pocket. Ownership isn't going to change hands. Mark Cuban, who everyone keeps talking about, was rejected by MLB. He won't be approved to own ANY team.



Mario? Talk about yinzer bandwagoning short sidedness. Team tanked to get Crosby. Where were all the great Pens fans then? Trust me, Mario isn't going to be lauded here in a few years once Crosby and Malkin are no longer top line performers, but getting paid like it. The writing is on the wall. Of the owners in this city, only one threatened to move the team if he didn't get his way. Hmmm, who was that? Oh yeah, the guy everyone loves now, but back then what were yinzers saying? That's right, "Go back to Canada!"



If people have already decided BC deserves no time, or chance. it's quite clear, they're bitching just to hear themselves bitching. You have to at least see one season out for goodness sakes.

I've been a Pirates fan for 40+ years and I would say the "vibe" is somewhat justified.



I can't remember a spring that was both so hopeful (we got rid of the old regime, and the new guys seem like they know their shit) and hopeless (whatever good things are going to happen are incredibly unlikely to happen this season, and maybe next season, too). That second part is, quite reasonably, hard to swallow for a fan base that just went through a 20-year string of losing seasons.



I like BC so far but I also think they're not being totally straightforward. I guess it would be incredibly stupid for them to say outright that we won't compete this year. But it would be nice if we could at least be privy to some part of the plan. So far we've replaced Marte with a couple of guys who might very well never make it to AAA. And we've signed a bunch of vets who all seem to have a .210 average.



I'll be watching intently to see how Tucker and Hayes proceed, and Cruz in the minors. But I also don't think it's unreasonable to be in a bitchy mood about the season we're all about to experience.

By the way, good to see you again, Surgnbuck. Not sure if you recall me from the "other" board.

2428212C3B673D2024263D21307B79092E24490 wrote: By the way, good to see you again, Surgnbuck. Not sure if you recall me from the "other" board.


Yes I do, and thanks for the welcome. Lot of old faces here....and I use that term literally ;D