Top Pirates at their position

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

033D3830233B3B3010352231540 wrote: Some of you might have seen this. The MLB has been running this. They are showing the top 5. For instance, Jason Kendall was voted their top catcher. Manny Sanguillen #2 Tony Pena #3 and Smokey Burgess #5 Never heard of the other one.

1B- Obviously Willie Stargell. The other 4- Just shows how bad the position has been 2. Jake Beckley 1888-1896 3. George Grantham 1925-1931.(possibly Shedman saw him play 4. Eddie Fletcher 1937-1947 5. Gus Suhr 1930 -1939      

The salaries of the 2-5 together wouldn't equal what Doc made in his final year of teaching


I guess it was close between Stargell and Jaso.  I would rate Sanguillen over Kendall.


interestingly, Stargell didn't make the full time move to 1st base until 1975. I've read about the others, but I've often wondered why bob Robertson doesn't get more consideration among the better Pirates 1st basemen. Historically though, they never had long-term answers at the position. Donn Clendenon seems to be forgotten a lot, as does Dick Stuart.



Catcher? Sanguillen over Kendall any day. There's always Green Weenies favorite, Jim Pagliaroni (I always liked him too). You could consider Ed Ott among the better ones, and Mike Lavalliere.



Who did they have at 3rd base after Traynor? Hoak?, Elliott? Hebner? Madlock?


First base, along with right field and third base, have especially been big problems for the Pirates in recent years going back to 1993. It shouldn't come as a surprise since those are power positions, and that's around the time when the price of free agents had the franchise curl up in the corner.  Kevin Young had a decent year or two, and then seemed to lose his interest.  Adam LaRoche barely made an impact.  Derek Bell and Raul Mondesi were supposed to help but neither of those guys can ever show their face in this city.  Polanco has been terribly inconsistent and can't stay on the field.  Aramis Ramirez was gone before he started to do real damage.  And Pedro Alvarez had one good season.  It hasn't been pretty.
Derek Bell what a fiasco- If I recall, "Operation Shutdown". Is that correct?


Right you are, Dave. Bell joins a long line of acquired players who either didn't show up at all or, when they did, would have done us all a favor had they not, like Bell.

[Bobster21]

0355435758425259544371565C50585D1F52310 wrote: Some of you might have seen this. The MLB has been running this. They are showing the top 5. For instance, Jason Kendall was voted their top catcher. Manny Sanguillen #2 Tony Pena #3 and Smokey Burgess #5 Never heard of the other one.

1B- Obviously Willie Stargell. The other 4- Just shows how bad the position has been 2. Jake Beckley 1888-1896 3. George Grantham 1925-1931.(possibly Shedman saw him play 4. Eddie Fletcher 1937-1947 5. Gus Suhr 1930 -1939      

The salaries of the 2-5 together wouldn't equal what Doc made in his final year of teaching


I guess it was close between Stargell and Jaso.  I would rate Sanguillen over Kendall.


interestingly, Stargell didn't make the full time move to 1st base until 1975. I've read about the others, but I've often wondered why bob Robertson doesn't get more consideration among the better Pirates 1st basemen. Historically though, they never had long-term answers at the position. Donn Clendenon seems to be forgotten a lot, as does Dick Stuart.



Catcher? Sanguillen over Kendall any day. There's always Green Weenies favorite, Jim Pagliaroni (I always liked him too). You could consider Ed Ott among the better ones, and Mike Lavalliere.



Who did they have at 3rd base after Traynor? Hoak?, Elliott? Hebner? Madlock?


First base, along with right field and third base, have especially been big problems for the Pirates in recent years going back to 1993. It shouldn't come as a surprise since those are power positions, and that's around the time when the price of free agents had the franchise curl up in the corner.  Kevin Young had a decent year or two, and then seemed to lose his interest.  Adam LaRoche barely made an impact.  Derek Bell and Raul Mondesi were supposed to help but neither of those guys can ever show their face in this city.  Polanco has been terribly inconsistent and can't stay on the field.  Aramis Ramirez was gone before he started to do real damage.  And Pedro Alvarez had one good season.  It hasn't been pretty.
Derek Bell what a fiasco- If I recall, "Operation Shutdown". Is that correct?


Right you are, Dave.  Bell joins a long line of acquired players who either didn't show up at all or, when they did, would have done us all a favor had they not, like Bell.
The problem with nearly all those players was that their careers were about over when acquired, they had little left and made Pittsburgh the final stop in their MLB career. Bell, Pat Meares, Mike Benjamin, Doug Strange, Joe Randa, Dale Sveum, Amos Otis, Ken Reitz, Sixto Lezcano, Chris Stynes, Benito Santiago, Jeromy Burnitz, Ramon Vazquez, Craig Monroe, Rod Barajas, Brandon Inge, Corey Hart all signed on with the Pirates for one last season of MLB before hanging up the cleats.

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

476A67767160773734050 wrote: Some of you might have seen this. The MLB has been running this. They are showing the top 5. For instance, Jason Kendall was voted their top catcher. Manny Sanguillen #2 Tony Pena #3 and Smokey Burgess #5 Never heard of the other one.

1B- Obviously Willie Stargell. The other 4- Just shows how bad the position has been 2. Jake Beckley 1888-1896 3. George Grantham 1925-1931.(possibly Shedman saw him play 4. Eddie Fletcher 1937-1947 5. Gus Suhr 1930 -1939      

The salaries of the 2-5 together wouldn't equal what Doc made in his final year of teaching


I guess it was close between Stargell and Jaso.  I would rate Sanguillen over Kendall.


interestingly, Stargell didn't make the full time move to 1st base until 1975. I've read about the others, but I've often wondered why bob Robertson doesn't get more consideration among the better Pirates 1st basemen. Historically though, they never had long-term answers at the position. Donn Clendenon seems to be forgotten a lot, as does Dick Stuart.



Catcher? Sanguillen over Kendall any day. There's always Green Weenies favorite, Jim Pagliaroni (I always liked him too). You could consider Ed Ott among the better ones, and Mike Lavalliere.



Who did they have at 3rd base after Traynor? Hoak?, Elliott? Hebner? Madlock?


First base, along with right field and third base, have especially been big problems for the Pirates in recent years going back to 1993. It shouldn't come as a surprise since those are power positions, and that's around the time when the price of free agents had the franchise curl up in the corner.  Kevin Young had a decent year or two, and then seemed to lose his interest.  Adam LaRoche barely made an impact.  Derek Bell and Raul Mondesi were supposed to help but neither of those guys can ever show their face in this city.  Polanco has been terribly inconsistent and can't stay on the field.  Aramis Ramirez was gone before he started to do real damage.  And Pedro Alvarez had one good season.  It hasn't been pretty.
Derek Bell what a fiasco- If I recall, "Operation Shutdown". Is that correct?


Right you are, Dave.  Bell joins a long line of acquired players who either didn't show up at all or, when they did, would have done us all a favor had they not, like Bell.
The problem with nearly all those players was that their careers were about over when acquired, they had little left and made Pittsburgh the final stop in their MLB career. Bell, Pat Meares, Mike Benjamin, Doug Strange, Joe Randa, Dale Sveum, Amos Otis, Ken Reitz, Sixto Lezcano, Chris Stynes, Benito Santiago, Jeromy Burnitz, Ramon Vazquez, Craig Monroe, Rod Barajas, Brandon Inge, Corey Hart all signed on with the Pirates for one last season of MLB before hanging up the cleats.   




That's quite the list, and we know there are more guys to add to it. Every team has a list like that, but the guys who the Pirates have brought in during the past 30 years just may be second to none.

[ArnoldRothstein]

More on Bell: the Pirates traded Wil Cordero for outfielder Alex Ramirez and Enrique Wilson at the 2000 trade deadline. They then sold Ramirez to Japan, and that money probably paid a little of the freight to sign Bell a few weeks later. Ramirez went on to hit 380 homers in Japan. I don't know how good Ramirez really was, but he wasn't any worse than Bell, and he was for free.

[JulianJay]

to no texter in particular because the linking/identifying Cherington as a Huntington clone/same old Pirates/etc by so many texters seems, at least to me, at the very least way too soon to evaluate him and the rest of the new hires...and yes, there isn't much that I haven't read, heard or said myself about the prior fiasco...JMO but it seems they are doing exactly what they said...evaluate and implement new analytics, coaching, etc to get more production, if possible, from the players they have...hope I'm right and that they right.

[JulianJay]

third base...Frank Thomas

[Bobster21]

1A253C39313E1A3129500 wrote: to no texter in particular because the linking/identifying Cherington as a Huntington clone/same old Pirates/etc by so many texters seems, at least to me, at the very least way too soon to evaluate him and the rest of the new hires...and yes, there isn't much that I haven't read, heard or said myself about the prior fiasco...JMO but it seems they are doing exactly what they said...evaluate and implement new analytics, coaching, etc to get more production, if possible, from the players they have...hope I'm right and that they right.
Yeah, it's kinda hard to judge Cherington after 0 games. The organization's policy about assembling the cheapest team possible hasn't changed. But that's out of his control.

[iwatch]

Third base: Traynor, Madlock, Hebner, Frank Thomas, Bob Elliott, Tommy Leach.

[Surgnbuck]

Pirates Fan Council just put out a survey on who you thought was the best Pirate at each position that you saw. I'm sure there will be tons of votes for Honus Wagner at SS, but I'm guessing those voters either rose from the dead or didn't understand the question.



Just one for each position, just one starting pitcher, no relief pitchers, and the OF was by position, not just any three OF.



My pics were:

SP- Drabek (tough one for me to take him over Candy)

C- Sanguillen

1B- Stargell

2B- Walker

3B- Madlock

SS- Bell

LF-Bonds

CF-Cutch

RF-Clemente

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

14323520292532242C470 wrote: Pirates Fan Council just put out a survey on who you thought was the best Pirate at each position that you saw. I'm sure there will be tons of votes for Honus Wagner at SS, but I'm guessing those voters either rose from the dead or didn't understand the question.



Just one for each position, just one starting pitcher, no relief pitchers, and the OF was by position, not just any three OF.



My pics were:

SP- Drabek (tough one for me to take him over Candy)

C- Sanguillen

1B- Stargell

2B- Walker

3B- Madlock

SS- Bell

LF-Bonds

CF-Cutch

RF-Clemente






Even though I'm a few delicate years older Surge, I mostly agree with your list. I might replace Drabek with Vern Law or even Steve Blass, I'd choose Maz over Walker, and Gene Alley would be my SS, in spite of an injury that sadly cut short what was shaping up to be a very good career. There's a case to be made for Dick Groat, too. An MVP season ain't too shabby.