About half the Marlins test positive

[IABucFan]

6055424249704242494E42270 wrote: I'd support mandatory vaccinations before I'd support being infected and dying- or, seeing others die- because someone else chose not to be a team player.  Could be part of the reason we're "in last place" with this mess.



I'm being safe to protect others.  Why can't they extend the same courtesy?


Because of the precedent that it sets. I’m actually not opposed to getting vaccinated in principle. Meaning, I’d do it voluntarily. But the government telling me I MUST do this...that’s a different question entirely. How many of your rights are you willing to forego in the name of health? How long must we do this for? because, I’ll be honest, I doubt we EVER go back to normal. I suspect masks are here to stay. Can’t be too careful!



Personally, I’d rather die an excruciating death at the hands of COVID than sacrifice the liberties I enjoy as an American. And I’m 100% serious when I say that.

[IABucFan]

And BTW, I’m not trying to be crass about this. I wear a mask in public. I try to distance. I’m not going out.

[Ecbucs]

595152657356717E100 wrote: I'd support mandatory vaccinations before I'd support being infected and dying- or, seeing others die- because someone else chose not to be a team player.  Could be part of the reason we're "in last place" with this mess.



I'm being safe to protect others.  Why can't they extend the same courtesy?


Because of the precedent that it sets. I’m actually not opposed to getting vaccinated in principle. Meaning, I’d do it voluntarily. But the government telling me I MUST do this...that’s a different question entirely. How many of your rights are you willing to forego in the name of health? How long must we do this for? because, I’ll be honest, I doubt we EVER go back to normal. I suspect masks are here to stay. Can’t be too careful!



Personally, I’d rather die an excruciating death at the hands of COVID than sacrifice the liberties I enjoy as an American. And I’m 100% serious when I say that.




I don't think COVID vaccine will be mandatory as a high percentage of people will get one voluntarily (probably 70 percent or higher). Military will require it, some or all colleges may too.



But I also don't think requiring a vaccination sacrifices our liberties any more than a a drivers license does.

[GreenWeenie]

5F57546375507778160 wrote: I'd support mandatory vaccinations before I'd support being infected and dying- or, seeing others die- because someone else chose not to be a team player.  Could be part of the reason we're "in last place" with this mess.



I'm being safe to protect others.  Why can't they extend the same courtesy?


Because of the precedent that it sets. I’m actually not opposed to getting vaccinated in principle. Meaning, I’d do it voluntarily. But the government telling me I MUST do this...that’s a different question entirely. How many of your rights are you willing to forego in the name of health? How long must we do this for? because, I’ll be honest, I doubt we EVER go back to normal. I suspect masks are here to stay. Can’t be too careful!



Personally, I’d rather die an excruciating death at the hands of COVID than sacrifice the liberties I enjoy as an American. And I’m 100% serious when I say that.






For how many years have you been wearing seatbelts, and for what reason?



When it comes to masks, the issue isn't protecting the person who's wearing them.  It's to avoid spreading the virus to other people.



Rights?  Freedom?  I don't think that the Constitution allows me to harm innocent people.  Even if it does, i don't consider that a good thing for me to do.

[IABucFan]

724750505B6250505B5C50350 wrote: I'd support mandatory vaccinations before I'd support being infected and dying- or, seeing others die- because someone else chose not to be a team player.  Could be part of the reason we're "in last place" with this mess.



I'm being safe to protect others.  Why can't they extend the same courtesy?


Because of the precedent that it sets. I’m actually not opposed to getting vaccinated in principle. Meaning, I’d do it voluntarily. But the government telling me I MUST do this...that’s a different question entirely. How many of your rights are you willing to forego in the name of health? How long must we do this for? because, I’ll be honest, I doubt we EVER go back to normal. I suspect masks are here to stay. Can’t be too careful!



Personally, I’d rather die an excruciating death at the hands of COVID than sacrifice the liberties I enjoy as an American. And I’m 100% serious when I say that.






For how many years have you been wearing seatbelts, and for what reason?



When it comes to masks, the issue isn't protecting the person who's wearing them.  It's to avoid spreading the virus to other people.



Rights?  Freedom?  I don't think that the Constitution allows me to harm innocent people.  Even if it does, i don't consider that a good thing for me to do.






I suspect this will probably need to be moved to the OT forum and that’s fine, but I want to respond to this.



First, the seatbelt analogy falls a little short for a number of reasons. First, whether I do it or not has no bearing on anyone else. (This actually bolsters your point, but it’s a difference, so I want to note it.) Second, it’s temporary, and not something that is placed in my body. Third, I can drive without a seatbelt. If I’m caught, I pay the requisite fine and I go my merry way. But there’s no ban on driving my car if I’m not buckled up.



I understand all of the reasons for wearing a mask, how it’s not for me, it’s for others. I get it. But even if that’s true, you use the seatbelt analogy to demonstrate your point. Go the opposite direction. I live in the heart of tornado alley. Should I have to sell my house and move for “safety?” I mean, if we’re going to try to protect every life...



The fact of the matter is, the goalposts keep moving. At the start of this, it was to “slow the spread” and “flatten the curve.” They told us two weeks. They told us we didn’t need to wear masks...Fauci, Birkx, and Adams are all on record as saying so. They originally said it couldn’t be spread by humans. They said asymptomatic people couldn’t spread it. They’ve lied every step of the way on this. So forgive me if I’m suspect that they actually have our best interests at heart with their vaccine that they rushed through production, faster than any vaccine in history, the first vaccine for a coronavirus in humans. Contrary ideas are being censored on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. Bit by bit, slowly but surely, they’re doing more and more to “keep people safe.” It’s always in that context. But the reality is that there is always risk in everything we do.



A more apt analogy than your seatbelt example would be to ban automobiles. I mean, even with seatbelt laws, people still die in car accidents. And since every life is important and we have to protect every life, perhaps we should make it illegal to drive. Think I’m crazy? Check with me in a few years.



When I said I’d rather die of COVID than have the government FORCE me to take a vaccine, I meant it quite literally. I’m not an anti-vaxer. I don’t believe vaccines cause autism. I’m vaccinated for just about anything you can imagine. I’m not opposed to getting a flu shot. I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I just don’t like the precedents being set and I’ve decided that this is the hill I’m going to die on, literally or figuratively.



Finally, forgive me for being skeptical of a man (Bill Gates) who is most pushing this vaccine, and who is not: a medical doctor, a virologist, an epidemiologist, a medical researcher, or has any experience with infectious diseases. Hell, he can’t keep a virus out of his own software. In short, I don’t trust Gates as far as I can throw him. If I have to sell everything I have and go live in a cabin the woods for the rest of my life, fine but I am NOT being forcefully vaccinated.

[GreenWeenie]

It should & will be moved, no doubt.



My point re:  Seatbelts is that we do it because the government requires it.  It's the law.



I haven't heard gripes about the government requiring us to wear sealtbelts so that we can drive a car in probably 40 years. 



Masks are no big deal to begin with.



Add the pandemic to that, and they're even less of a deal.  In other words, a whole bunch of nothing.



Reasonable people can agree to disagree.

[IABucFan]

172235353E0735353E3935500 wrote: It should & will be moved, no doubt.



My point re:  Seatbelts is that we do it because the government requires it.  It's the law.



I haven't heard gripes about the government requiring us to wear sealtbelts so that we can drive a car in probably 40 years. 



Masks are no big deal to begin with.



Add the pandemic to that, and they're even less of a deal.  In other words, a whole bunch of nothing.



Reasonable people can agree to disagree.


But doesn’t this concern you even a little bit? A little bit here, a little bit there. “It’s all for your benefit,” they tell us. “It’s for safety/health/security,” fill in the blank. This was what they told us when they banned liquids on planes...17 years ago.



I mean, yeah, in a vacuum, seatbelt laws are NBD. But we don’t live in a vacuum. We live in the real world, and you can’t regulate people to safety.



IMO, masks ARE a big deal. Again, in a vacuum? No. But it’s not human. Human beings are meant to see each other's faces. We’re relational beings. And, when combined with going cashless, and no handshakes, and “please stay six feet apart,” and vaccine verification cards, and one thing after another...it isn’t worth it. We’ve made the cure worse than the disease. Honestly, at this point, I’d rather just get it. If I die, I die. The only thing from preventing me from intentionally exposing myself to the virus is the two-week quarantine. I have too much to do to sit in my house and scroll Twitter for 14 days.



Look, I’m sorry...it’s nothing personal. I’m just so frustrated, and I think we’ve absolutely lost our minds on this. As I said above, I truly believe this is the single biggest overreaction in human history. The only question in my mind is whether that’s intentional or not, in other words whether their motives truly are to preserve public health and safety or if they’re nefarious in nature. Anyway, yes, reasonable people can agree to disagree.

[GreenWeenie]

0 concern. Never have had. Don't and won't.



I wear mine voluntarily and with no complaint. I care about those with whom I come in contact. I don't want harm on my conscience. I have enough on my mind, like why the hell I still care about the Pittsburgh Pirates, who continue to make me sick?



So, why should I be concerned if it is legislated? I never have, and never will consider this a big deal or any deal.



No wonder we're losing men and women to this disease.

[IABucFan]

6E5B4C4C477E4C4C47404C290 wrote: 0 concern.  Never have had.  Don't and won't.



I wear mine voluntarily and with no complaint.  I care about those with whom I come in contact.  I don't want harm on my conscience. I have enough on my mind, like why the hell I still care about the Pittsburgh Pirates, who continue to make me sick?



So, why should I be concerned if it is legislated?  I never have, and never will consider this a big deal or any deal.



No wonder we're losing men and women to this disease.










Wait...time out...what does this mean? Are you insinuating that some people's deaths are on my conscience?



Another question...why have we never done this for the flu? Let’s say 80,000 people die in a typical year from the flu. We’ve never had any of this type of response. Why? We’re those 80,000 lives not important? What should have been the cutoff point in your mind? 100,000 dead triggers a mask mandate? I’m not trying to be snakily...I’m actually glad to have this debate. I can’t do this on my regular social media, so I appreciate your candidness.



It’s all honestly mute anyway; I’m convinced we’re NEVER going back to normal. Life as we knew it pre-COVID is gone and never coming back. Masks are here to stay. The vaccine may not be “hold you down and make you comply” mandatory, but you‘ll have to have it to fly, get a job, etc.



I'm crushed, honestly, because I love to travel. I’ve been to 19 countries, four continents. Been to Europe six times. I love it there. But if being COVID-vaccinated is a condition for travel post-2020, I’ll miss it, but I’m not getting forcefully vaccinated. And making international travel contingent upon it is a distinction without a difference.



Please don’t take any of this personally. I respect you. I honestly like having someone to talk about it with.



As for the Pirates, I didn’t even know they were playing today. My interest in this season is already gone. Haven’t read a game thread in a week.



Edit: P.S. my masks comes off in September of 2021. Vaccine or no vaccine. If it’s not mandated, either explicitly or in practice, I’ll get it. But regardless of wherever we’re at with this, September 2021 is my personal cutoff date. If that means I’m treated like a leper by society and have to go live on an island never to see civilization again, fine. As I said, this is the hill I’m dying on, literally or figuratively.

[GreenWeenie]

No. I don't know or care what's on someone else's conscience. I care what's on mine.