OnlyBucs

517776617767140 wrote: In Keller's favor, he is turning 25 in April, he has pitched less than 100 innings at the major league level, and many of his stats in the minors were quite good.



That said, to date, at the major league level, nearly all of his stats are not just poor, they are bad.



There is little indication that Keller can become a top of the line starter.  My hope is that he can establish himself as a decent starter at the major league level this year, and that he continues to grow during the few years that the Pirates will control his service time.   There is still time, but he could be sunk by expectations.




My son and I do some high stakes fantasy baseball leagues . We've found some pretty knowledgable sources that give information on pitchers in particular. What we found on Keller is they believe  the movement on his FB is terrible. They also say his FB command is also terrible. That IMO explains the disappointment .




does your say if this has been a change since he was in lower minors?  It doesn't make sense that he was held in high regard if he had poor movement and command.


Yeah, is it really possible that some amateurs can pick apart the Pirates roster better than the entire organization? Not doubting Steve49's note, I'm really struggling to figure out how this rerun is replaying itself.

3E392F27293E79750C2B212D2520622F23214C0 wrote: Interesting comments. Remove Keller and insert Glasnow and the same things were being said when he first came up. Then he gets traded and suddenly he's the missing link. So all they need to do to get keller on track is trade him and the team he goes to is rewarded for their patience and Pirates fans will finally love keller.



Let the guy get a season or so.
This is a good chance to see if the BC regime will do a better job of developing pitchers than the NH regime.


Glasnow needed about one word to almost instantly fulfilling all his promise: "just go out there and throw your stuff."  The Rays don't look like geniuses, the Pirates look like idiots.



Keller has a year under the new regime and ZERO results, from appearances.  Is it possible for the new guys to whiff as badly as the old guys?  The rest of MLB is certainly hoping so...



Maybe there's something in the water in Pittsburgh.
Yes, but Keller's "year" was 5 games in 2020. Too soon to tell if the new regime can help him.

5A777A6B6C7D6A2A29180 wrote: Interesting comments. Remove Keller and insert Glasnow and the same things were being said when he first came up. Then he gets traded and suddenly he's the missing link. So all they need to do to get keller on track is trade him and the team he goes to is rewarded for their patience and Pirates fans will finally love keller.



Let the guy get a season or so.
This is a good chance to see if the BC regime will do a better job of developing pitchers than the NH regime.


Glasnow needed about one word to almost instantly fulfilling all his promise: "just go out there and throw your stuff."  The Rays don't look like geniuses, the Pirates look like idiots.



Keller has a year under the new regime and ZERO results, from appearances.  Is it possible for the new guys to whiff as badly as the old guys?  The rest of MLB is certainly hoping so...



Maybe there's something in the water in Pittsburgh.
Yes, but Keller's "year" was 5 games in 2020. Too soon to tell if the new regime can help him.
I always thought Glasnow was totally being mishandled and I said so in many post. I don't see the same potential in Keller. He's first not got the physical attributes as Glasnow and I see very little reason to think he will be anything more than a number 5 pitcher. I'm sick of him being pushed as the next great pitcher for the pirates he's just not. He may need to go to the bullpen and learn how to throw strikes.

3F272522223524233E3F294C0 wrote: Interesting comments. Remove Keller and insert Glasnow and the same things were being said when he first came up. Then he gets traded and suddenly he's the missing link. So all they need to do to get keller on track is trade him and the team he goes to is rewarded for their patience and Pirates fans will finally love keller.



Let the guy get a season or so.
This is a good chance to see if the BC regime will do a better job of developing pitchers than the NH regime.


Glasnow needed about one word to almost instantly fulfilling all his promise: "just go out there and throw your stuff."  The Rays don't look like geniuses, the Pirates look like idiots.



Keller has a year under the new regime and ZERO results, from appearances.  Is it possible for the new guys to whiff as badly as the old guys?  The rest of MLB is certainly hoping so...



Maybe there's something in the water in Pittsburgh.
Yes, but Keller's "year" was 5 games in 2020. Too soon to tell if the new regime can help him.
I always thought Glasnow was totally being mishandled and I said so in many post.  I don't see the same potential in Keller.  He's first not got the physical attributes as Glasnow and I see very little reason to think he will be anything more than a number 5 pitcher.  I'm sick of him being pushed as the next great pitcher for the pirates he's just not.  He may need to go to the bullpen and learn how to throw strikes.
I am in 100% agreement with Skinnyhorse on this quote. How often do you have a 6’8” pitcher with an arsenal similar to Randy Johnson. Even Randy Johnson struggled initially. The Pirates got impatient and simply blew Glasnow’s development.

Imagine a rotation of Cole, Glasnow, and Morton. What could have been.

624445524454270 wrote: In Keller's favor, he is turning 25 in April, he has pitched less than 100 innings at the major league level, and many of his stats in the minors were quite good.



That said, to date, at the major league level, nearly all of his stats are not just poor, they are bad.



There is little indication that Keller can become a top of the line starter.  My hope is that he can establish himself as a decent starter at the major league level this year, and that he continues to grow during the few years that the Pirates will control his service time.   There is still time, but he could be sunk by expectations.




My son and I do some high stakes fantasy baseball leagues . We've found some pretty knowledgable sources that give information on pitchers in particular. What we found on Keller is they believe  the movement on his FB is terrible. They also say his FB command is also terrible. That IMO explains the disappointment .




does your say if this has been a change since he was in lower minors?  It doesn't make sense that he was held in high regard if he had poor movement and command.




He was throwing high 90's in the lower level minors. I'm thinking that for his age , he was a really good prospect. He really wasn't that great in AAA. It seems to me that he may have lost a little zip as he no longer clocks in at 98. Seems like it's mechanical . I think bottom line might be he's no better a pitcher than he was at high A. That would be somewhat an answer for your question which is legitimate. Could also be the Pirates just messed him up with bad coaching ? Hard to say ?

You know what KILLS an organization.



When you have not one but two allegedly top-flight, ELITE No. 1 caliber starters coming up through the minor leagues ...



And for whatever reason you get essentially nothing out of either. One goes on to star for another franchise, the other turns out to be nothing more than a journeyman pitcher at the MLB level.



I mean that is an absolute KILLER for a franchise.

6341524F4C494E41625543434F200 wrote: You know what KILLS an organization.



When you have not one but two allegedly top-flight, ELITE No. 1 caliber starters coming up through the minor leagues ...



And for whatever reason you get essentially nothing out of either. One goes on to star for another franchise, the other turns out to be nothing more than a journeyman pitcher at the MLB level.



I mean that is an absolute KILLER for a franchise.


This is the truth. The consequences to the organization for Glasnow and Keller can not be overstated. Then add 3 position players (Marte, Polanco, and Meadows) and the relatively small return for Cole and we have the story of now the current Pittsburgh Pirates came to be the Devastated Pittsburgh Pirates.



In another thread (about the Nutting interview to the PG) I talked about how lightening-in-the bottle contributed to the 2013-15 Pirates. The current Pirates are the complete opposite.

0F222F3E39283F7F7C4D0 wrote: Interesting comments. Remove Keller and insert Glasnow and the same things were being said when he first came up. Then he gets traded and suddenly he's the missing link. So all they need to do to get keller on track is trade him and the team he goes to is rewarded for their patience and Pirates fans will finally love keller.



Let the guy get a season or so.
This is a good chance to see if the BC regime will do a better job of developing pitchers than the NH regime.


Glasnow needed about one word to almost instantly fulfilling all his promise: "just go out there and throw your stuff."  The Rays don't look like geniuses, the Pirates look like idiots.



Keller has a year under the new regime and ZERO results, from appearances.  Is it possible for the new guys to whiff as badly as the old guys?  The rest of MLB is certainly hoping so...



Maybe there's something in the water in Pittsburgh.
Yes, but Keller's "year" was 5 games in 2020. Too soon to tell if the new regime can help him.


Yeah, and that’s fair. But I was hoping for Keller to show “something” this spring. Maybe he’s doing something different, but he seems to be getting the same results; very discouraging.

Wasn't Nick Kingham supposed to be a stud too?



그는별로 좋지 않았습니다.



According to the Google translator, that's Korean for "He was not very good."

6C414C5D5A4B5C1C1F2E0 wrote: Wasn't Nick Kingham supposed to be a stud too?


He was picked high in the fourth, got paid late second/early third money. One of the legions who lost a couple years development to Tommy John.