Free Agent Starting Pitching Getting Really Thin

[2drfischer@gmail.c]

6B5550584B535358785D4A590E3C0 wrote: This is a rhetorical question because we all know the answer, but is this team going to do anything (meaningful) prior to opening day ??



Let's see ...



* We still need a RF

* We need a 2B

* Our projected starting SS is a .200 hitter

* We need about 3 legitimate starting pitchers to go along with the 0 that we currently have.



We need all of that ... but we're heading into the season as is.



It's embarrassing.



And it's going to be painful ... especially because for EVERY SINGLE GAME OF THE SEASON we'll be sending a guy to the mound who, at best, is a No. 5 starter. And most of our starting pitchers aren't even at that level.



I'm feeling 52-110 ... because the team isn't even attempting to be good.



I don't blame Cherington. He's a good baseball guy and he's not an idiot. I blame Nutting 100%. Cherington's hands are tied  and he's not allowed to do his job, which involves spending money.
Like last year, the starting pitching looks putrid. It's hard to see anyone in the rotation not having a bad year. As for the rest, this should be a season of transition as prospects in the pipeline begin to fill spots on the Pirates. Newman is nothing more than a placeholder for Cruz (or Peguero). Cruz could also end up in RF. He has the arm for it, has made a lot of errors at SS in the minors and has a better SS in Peguero about a year behind him. They want to see what they have in Chavis who can play 2B or OF. And Alford, who plays OF. Rodolfo Castro is a possibility for 2B. OFer Matt Frazier had an outstanding year at A+ and AA last year and will likely be in AAA this year. He could be called up to the Pirates at some time this year. Then there's Hoy Park and Tucupita Marcano, prospects obtained in trades last year who can play inf or OF. And while I don't have much faith in Tucker or Oliva, the Pirates don't seem to have given up on them......yet.



The point is, this is the direction the team is taking for 2022. They are committed to building from within and are not going to look outside the organization for veterans to fill needs at 2B, SS or OF when they have been acquiring prospects to fill those spots. We're no longer talking about prospects who are 3 or 4 years away. For a lot of them it's time to prove themselves. Now or never. And while I can muster some optimism that enough of them will become productive major leaguers, the pitching situation looks hopeless. 
RF? Polanco?




Why not?  And have him bring Ronnie Cedeno along.

[rucker59@gmail.com]

6B4C5D595C417E4A5D5C5C41380 wrote: This is a rhetorical question because we all know the answer, but is this team going to do anything (meaningful) prior to opening day ??



Let's see ...



* We still need a RF

* We need a 2B

* Our projected starting SS is a .200 hitter

* We need about 3 legitimate starting pitchers to go along with the 0 that we currently have.



We need all of that ... but we're heading into the season as is.



It's embarrassing.



And it's going to be painful ... especially because for EVERY SINGLE GAME OF THE SEASON we'll be sending a guy to the mound who, at best, is a No. 5 starter. And most of our starting pitchers aren't even at that level.



I'm feeling 52-110 ... because the team isn't even attempting to be good.



I don't blame Cherington. He's a good baseball guy and he's not an idiot. I blame Nutting 100%. Cherington's hands are tied  and he's not allowed to do his job, which involves spending money.
Like last year, the starting pitching looks putrid. It's hard to see anyone in the rotation not having a bad year. As for the rest, this should be a season of transition as prospects in the pipeline begin to fill spots on the Pirates. Newman is nothing more than a placeholder for Cruz (or Peguero). Cruz could also end up in RF. He has the arm for it, has made a lot of errors at SS in the minors and has a better SS in Peguero about a year behind him. They want to see what they have in Chavis who can play 2B or OF. And Alford, who plays OF. Rodolfo Castro is a possibility for 2B. OFer Matt Frazier had an outstanding year at A+ and AA last year and will likely be in AAA this year. He could be called up to the Pirates at some time this year. Then there's Hoy Park and Tucupita Marcano, prospects obtained in trades last year who can play inf or OF. And while I don't have much faith in Tucker or Oliva, the Pirates don't seem to have given up on them......yet.



The point is, this is the direction the team is taking for 2022. They are committed to building from within and are not going to look outside the organization for veterans to fill needs at 2B, SS or OF when they have been acquiring prospects to fill those spots. We're no longer talking about prospects who are 3 or 4 years away. For a lot of them it's time to prove themselves. Now or never. And while I can muster some optimism that enough of them will become productive major leaguers, the pitching situation looks hopeless. 


This!

This is what we were expecting last summer for 2022 - a transition year.  Been saying for a couple years that 2023 is when we actually compete.  I’m looking forward to watch the team call up the young guys.  Regarding starting pitching…I expect FA or a trade for a starter in 2023. 



I had a chance to talk to BC over the winter.  He does not look or talk like somebody that is just keeping the owner happy.  He plans to win and win big.  I agree with you VA I like the direction Cherrington is going so far and more importantly the players they have coming up in the system within the next 2 years. Guys like Cruz,Priester, Contreras, Mlodzinski, Gonzales, Puguero, Burrows, Endy Rodriguez, Hudson Head, Brennan Malone, Kyle Nicolas,and guys from this past draft like Davis, Chandler, Solometo, White Jr, and guys that could be ready this year like Mason Martin, Matt Fraizer, Cal Mitchell, Swaggerty, Ji-hwan Bae just to name a few. There are players and pieces in place within the next 2-3 years I feel this team can be very good by 2024.



Now will all these guys hit probably not but there are enough solid top of the line players in that list I just mentioned above for me to believe that they are gonna be able to field a solid team here moving forward in the next few seasons and get back to competing for the playoffs much like they did in 2013, 2014, and 2015. This year will still be a struggle but I do believe we will see a lot of the younger players start to come up toward seasons end and by next season the days of losing 90-100 games should be done and we will start to see a team that will probably at least be ready to play around .500 ball or slightly better and maybe even compete for one of the 6 playoff spots.


Freddy, all those players you mentioned - it’s absolutely amazing the depth that the Pirates are sitting on. Very few have to be great players. Plus Ben has the depth to be able to package a deal for a starter from somebody that needs prospects.



I expect the rotation, next year, will have one FA and one through trade.



I did a spread sheet that listed all the players coming and going under Ben - your roster is right on and there is a lot more.



A lot of complaining going to be going on this year, but it will all start coming together. Unless of course Ben just misses on his evaluations. If that happens, well I’m betting he knows baseball better than our more recent Gms.

[SteadyFreddy]

5A5D4B434D5A1D11684F45494144064B4745280 wrote: This is a rhetorical question because we all know the answer, but is this team going to do anything (meaningful) prior to opening day ??



Let's see ...



* We still need a RF

* We need a 2B

* Our projected starting SS is a .200 hitter

* We need about 3 legitimate starting pitchers to go along with the 0 that we currently have.



We need all of that ... but we're heading into the season as is.



It's embarrassing.



And it's going to be painful ... especially because for EVERY SINGLE GAME OF THE SEASON we'll be sending a guy to the mound who, at best, is a No. 5 starter. And most of our starting pitchers aren't even at that level.



I'm feeling 52-110 ... because the team isn't even attempting to be good.



I don't blame Cherington. He's a good baseball guy and he's not an idiot. I blame Nutting 100%. Cherington's hands are tied  and he's not allowed to do his job, which involves spending money.
Like last year, the starting pitching looks putrid. It's hard to see anyone in the rotation not having a bad year. As for the rest, this should be a season of transition as prospects in the pipeline begin to fill spots on the Pirates. Newman is nothing more than a placeholder for Cruz (or Peguero). Cruz could also end up in RF. He has the arm for it, has made a lot of errors at SS in the minors and has a better SS in Peguero about a year behind him. They want to see what they have in Chavis who can play 2B or OF. And Alford, who plays OF. Rodolfo Castro is a possibility for 2B. OFer Matt Frazier had an outstanding year at A+ and AA last year and will likely be in AAA this year. He could be called up to the Pirates at some time this year. Then there's Hoy Park and Tucupita Marcano, prospects obtained in trades last year who can play inf or OF. And while I don't have much faith in Tucker or Oliva, the Pirates don't seem to have given up on them......yet.



The point is, this is the direction the team is taking for 2022. They are committed to building from within and are not going to look outside the organization for veterans to fill needs at 2B, SS or OF when they have been acquiring prospects to fill those spots. We're no longer talking about prospects who are 3 or 4 years away. For a lot of them it's time to prove themselves. Now or never. And while I can muster some optimism that enough of them will become productive major leaguers, the pitching situation looks hopeless. 


This!

This is what we were expecting last summer for 2022 - a transition year.  Been saying for a couple years that 2023 is when we actually compete.  I’m looking forward to watch the team call up the young guys.  Regarding starting pitching…I expect FA or a trade for a starter in 2023. 



I had a chance to talk to BC over the winter.  He does not look or talk like somebody that is just keeping the owner happy.  He plans to win and win big.  I agree with you VA I like the direction Cherrington is going so far and more importantly the players they have coming up in the system within the next 2 years. Guys like Cruz,Priester, Contreras, Mlodzinski, Gonzales, Puguero, Burrows, Endy Rodriguez, Hudson Head, Brennan Malone, Kyle Nicolas,and guys from this past draft like Davis, Chandler, Solometo, White Jr, and guys that could be ready this year like Mason Martin, Matt Fraizer, Cal Mitchell, Swaggerty, Ji-hwan Bae just to name a few. There are players and pieces in place within the next 2-3 years I feel this team can be very good by 2024.



Now will all these guys hit probably not but there are enough solid top of the line players in that list I just mentioned above for me to believe that they are gonna be able to field a solid team here moving forward in the next few seasons and get back to competing for the playoffs much like they did in 2013, 2014, and 2015. This year will still be a struggle but I do believe we will see a lot of the younger players start to come up toward seasons end and by next season the days of losing 90-100 games should be done and we will start to see a team that will probably at least be ready to play around .500 ball or slightly better and maybe even compete for one of the 6 playoff spots.


Freddy, all those players you mentioned - it’s absolutely amazing the depth that the Pirates are sitting on.  Very few have to be great players.  Plus Ben has the depth to be able to package a deal for a starter from somebody that needs prospects. 



I expect the rotation, next year, will have one FA and one through trade. 



I did a spread sheet that listed all the players coming and going under Ben - your roster is right on and there is a lot more. 



A lot of complaining going to be going on this year, but it will all start coming together.  Unless of course Ben just misses on his evaluations.   If that happens, well I’m betting he knows baseball better than our more recent Gms.  Yea it’s really exciting to see how many good young players are currently in the system and you can see why the Pirates are ranked as one of the top 5 Farm Systems currently in all of baseball. But like you mentioned you can’t win with strictly young players alone. You have to add some veteran leadership in a position player or two and a starting pitcher or two as well. And I’m talking a good free agent player not someone like John Jaso or John Neise. There is absolutely no excuse and I mean absolutely NONE for the Pirates and Nutting not to up this payroll and add to this young roster both next season and in 2024 and 2025. Like you said all of these players aren’t gonna be superstars but there is enough high level talent across the board here that I will be extremely disappointed if this Pirates team does not worst case scenario make the playoffs in some capacity between 2023 and 2025. Bob Nutting screwed this up the first time in 2015 after the 98 win season and it looks like coming up he is gonna get a chance to redeem himself and add to this roster finally and he better do it right this time and not play games and lie to this fanbase like he has done time and time again.