0C2A2B3C2A3A490 wrote: The Pirates, as of right now, are one of many teams who will not offer a refund for cancelled games, instead they are rolling them into credits, or can be used for the purchase of tickets in 2023.
Kind of holding our money hostage.
did the same thing happen in 2020?
No, we were offered refunds, including 2021. In 2020, they even paid a bonus for staying on as a STH for 2021
The next CBA and the future of MLB
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The next CBA and the future of MLB
7D485F5F546D5F5F54535F3A0 wrote: The Pirates, as of right now, are one of many teams who will not offer a refund for cancelled games, instead they are rolling them into credits, or can be used for the purchase of tickets in 2023.
How do you feel about it, Surg?
Some folks know that they'll be moving out of the area next year. Others may have valid reasons where they may be forced to make budget changes.
Makes me wonder what teams would do to their most important fans if they DIDN'T care about them so much.
I'm actually surprised. Someone had posted something on Reddit I think about the Giants doing this. It's completely wrong. I will wait and see what happens if and when more game are affected. Right now only three games are affected.
Opening Day tix are just moved to April 12th, which will become the new opener if they reach a deal. The games on April 2,3, and 12 will be "banked" so you can use them for some other game, or you can use the value of them for suites, stuff like that. Or, as credit towards the 2023 season.
After seeing some other teams are offering refunds, I think there will probably be some legal pressure to offer refunds.
How do you feel about it, Surg?
Some folks know that they'll be moving out of the area next year. Others may have valid reasons where they may be forced to make budget changes.
Makes me wonder what teams would do to their most important fans if they DIDN'T care about them so much.
I'm actually surprised. Someone had posted something on Reddit I think about the Giants doing this. It's completely wrong. I will wait and see what happens if and when more game are affected. Right now only three games are affected.
Opening Day tix are just moved to April 12th, which will become the new opener if they reach a deal. The games on April 2,3, and 12 will be "banked" so you can use them for some other game, or you can use the value of them for suites, stuff like that. Or, as credit towards the 2023 season.
After seeing some other teams are offering refunds, I think there will probably be some legal pressure to offer refunds.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The next CBA and the future of MLB
1A3C3B2E272B3C2A22490 wrote: The Pirates, as of right now, are one of many teams who will not offer a refund for cancelled games, instead they are rolling them into credits, or can be used for the purchase of tickets in 2023.
How do you feel about it, Surg?
Some folks know that they'll be moving out of the area next year. Others may have valid reasons where they may be forced to make budget changes.
Makes me wonder what teams would do to their most important fans if they DIDN'T care about them so much.
I'm actually surprised. Someone had posted something on Reddit I think about the Giants doing this. It's completely wrong. I will wait and see what happens if and when more game are affected. Right now only three games are affected.
Opening Day tix are just moved to April 12th, which will become the new opener if they reach a deal. The games on April 2,3, and 12 will be "banked" so you can use them for some other game, or you can use the value of them for suites, stuff like that. Or, as credit towards the 2023 season.
After seeing some other teams are offering refunds, I think there will probably be some legal pressure to offer refunds.
See? That's what gets me angry. Why does it seem to always come down to legal action or the threat of it with these guys?
Just treat people right is my policy. When one does, 95% of problems aren't problems, and the other 5% are lessened.
How do you feel about it, Surg?
Some folks know that they'll be moving out of the area next year. Others may have valid reasons where they may be forced to make budget changes.
Makes me wonder what teams would do to their most important fans if they DIDN'T care about them so much.
I'm actually surprised. Someone had posted something on Reddit I think about the Giants doing this. It's completely wrong. I will wait and see what happens if and when more game are affected. Right now only three games are affected.
Opening Day tix are just moved to April 12th, which will become the new opener if they reach a deal. The games on April 2,3, and 12 will be "banked" so you can use them for some other game, or you can use the value of them for suites, stuff like that. Or, as credit towards the 2023 season.
After seeing some other teams are offering refunds, I think there will probably be some legal pressure to offer refunds.
See? That's what gets me angry. Why does it seem to always come down to legal action or the threat of it with these guys?
Just treat people right is my policy. When one does, 95% of problems aren't problems, and the other 5% are lessened.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
The next CBA and the future of MLB
3F3D272137520 wrote: We can see how MLB treats its fans, we've seen again and again how they treat their minor league players, is it any wonder the major league players need a union?
I think unions were necessary when employees were being mistreated. Back in the day workers worked 80 hour weeks no overtime no vacation, it's understandable in that situation. However the major league player are not being abused in fact they're treated like royalty. So it's evolved in greed and I'm sick of the greed. There are people who work hard play by the rules who are paying these jerks salaries so they can sell there services to the highest bidder and the cost is passed along to the fan. What a awful system for fans.
I think unions were necessary when employees were being mistreated. Back in the day workers worked 80 hour weeks no overtime no vacation, it's understandable in that situation. However the major league player are not being abused in fact they're treated like royalty. So it's evolved in greed and I'm sick of the greed. There are people who work hard play by the rules who are paying these jerks salaries so they can sell there services to the highest bidder and the cost is passed along to the fan. What a awful system for fans.
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fjk090852-7
- Posts: 3488
- Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:52 pm
The next CBA and the future of MLB
645146464D7446464D4A46230 wrote: Spring Training will become Summer Training.
You are probably correct because if the lockout goes much longer the Pirates could train in Pittsburgh rather than going to Bradenton. Just a thought, if the Owners and Players agreed to the 12 or 14 playoff expansion, why not reduce the regular season to 156 games , and begin the Wild Card Series the last week of September, which is now the final week of the regular season. I am sure the parties would not agree to it, but by eliminating six regular season games, teams would lose one home series and one away series . Possibly you could then play a best of 5 Wild Card Series, which would provide all Wild Card teams with some home games rather than the current proposal to play all 3 Wild Card games at the ballpark of the higher seed.
You are probably correct because if the lockout goes much longer the Pirates could train in Pittsburgh rather than going to Bradenton. Just a thought, if the Owners and Players agreed to the 12 or 14 playoff expansion, why not reduce the regular season to 156 games , and begin the Wild Card Series the last week of September, which is now the final week of the regular season. I am sure the parties would not agree to it, but by eliminating six regular season games, teams would lose one home series and one away series . Possibly you could then play a best of 5 Wild Card Series, which would provide all Wild Card teams with some home games rather than the current proposal to play all 3 Wild Card games at the ballpark of the higher seed.
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2drfischer@gmail.c
The next CBA and the future of MLB
726A686F6F78696E737264010 wrote: We can see how MLB treats its fans, we've seen again and again how they treat their minor league players, is it any wonder the major league players need a union?
I think unions were necessary when employees were being mistreated. Back in the day workers worked 80 hour weeks no overtime no vacation, it's understandable in that situation. However the major league player are not being abused in fact they're treated like royalty. So it's evolved in greed and I'm sick of the greed. There are people who work hard play by the rules who are paying these jerks salaries so they can sell there services to the highest bidder and the cost is passed along to the fan. What a awful system for fans.
Unions are still necessary. If they disappeared, or were ruled to be illegal, workers would lose wages, benefits, safety measures, and anything else they’ve worked hard to gain.
I know you believe MLB players are greedy and overpaid, but the wages they receive are being paid by owners who’ve agreed to do so. Players may lose perhaps 60-70% of their wages if their union was eliminated. I’m sure you’d scream loudly if your wages fell that much.
The fact is that players earn what they do because they earn billions of dollars for the owners. The owners have agreed to pay the salaries they do. No one forces them.
I agree that there are millions of hard-working people who make a fraction of what baseball players make, many of them in jobs that are far more important. However, few of those workers bring in the type of revenue baseball players do, so their wages are far less. Also, no one is willing to pay money to watch those workers do their jobs.
Baseball players deserve to earn what they do because they make ridiculous amounts of money for their employers. That’s how a free market works.
I think unions were necessary when employees were being mistreated. Back in the day workers worked 80 hour weeks no overtime no vacation, it's understandable in that situation. However the major league player are not being abused in fact they're treated like royalty. So it's evolved in greed and I'm sick of the greed. There are people who work hard play by the rules who are paying these jerks salaries so they can sell there services to the highest bidder and the cost is passed along to the fan. What a awful system for fans.
Unions are still necessary. If they disappeared, or were ruled to be illegal, workers would lose wages, benefits, safety measures, and anything else they’ve worked hard to gain.
I know you believe MLB players are greedy and overpaid, but the wages they receive are being paid by owners who’ve agreed to do so. Players may lose perhaps 60-70% of their wages if their union was eliminated. I’m sure you’d scream loudly if your wages fell that much.
The fact is that players earn what they do because they earn billions of dollars for the owners. The owners have agreed to pay the salaries they do. No one forces them.
I agree that there are millions of hard-working people who make a fraction of what baseball players make, many of them in jobs that are far more important. However, few of those workers bring in the type of revenue baseball players do, so their wages are far less. Also, no one is willing to pay money to watch those workers do their jobs.
Baseball players deserve to earn what they do because they make ridiculous amounts of money for their employers. That’s how a free market works.
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WildwoodDave2
The next CBA and the future of MLB
3A6C7A6E617B6B606D7A486F65696164266B080 wrote: We can see how MLB treats its fans, we've seen again and again how they treat their minor league players, is it any wonder the major league players need a union?
I think unions were necessary when employees were being mistreated. Back in the day workers worked 80 hour weeks no overtime no vacation, it's understandable in that situation. However the major league player are not being abused in fact they're treated like royalty. So it's evolved in greed and I'm sick of the greed. There are people who work hard play by the rules who are paying these jerks salaries so they can sell there services to the highest bidder and the cost is passed along to the fan. What a awful system for fans.
Unions are still necessary. If they disappeared, or were ruled to be illegal, workers would lose wages, benefits, safety measures, and anything else they’ve worked hard to gain.
I know you believe MLB players are greedy and overpaid, but the wages they receive are being paid by owners who’ve agreed to do so. Players may lose perhaps 60-70% of their wages if their union was eliminated. I’m sure you’d scream loudly if your wages fell that much.
The fact is that players earn what they do because they earn billions of dollars for the owners. The owners have agreed to pay the salaries they do. No one forces them.
I agree that there are millions of hard-working people who make a fraction of what baseball players make, many of them in jobs that are far more important. However, few of those workers bring in the type of revenue baseball players do, so their wages are far less. Also, no one is willing to pay money to watch those workers do their jobs.
Baseball players deserve to earn what they do because they make ridiculous amounts of money for their employers. That’s how a free market works.
Had a 95 min. minute meeting today. More games to be canceled this week
I think unions were necessary when employees were being mistreated. Back in the day workers worked 80 hour weeks no overtime no vacation, it's understandable in that situation. However the major league player are not being abused in fact they're treated like royalty. So it's evolved in greed and I'm sick of the greed. There are people who work hard play by the rules who are paying these jerks salaries so they can sell there services to the highest bidder and the cost is passed along to the fan. What a awful system for fans.
Unions are still necessary. If they disappeared, or were ruled to be illegal, workers would lose wages, benefits, safety measures, and anything else they’ve worked hard to gain.
I know you believe MLB players are greedy and overpaid, but the wages they receive are being paid by owners who’ve agreed to do so. Players may lose perhaps 60-70% of their wages if their union was eliminated. I’m sure you’d scream loudly if your wages fell that much.
The fact is that players earn what they do because they earn billions of dollars for the owners. The owners have agreed to pay the salaries they do. No one forces them.
I agree that there are millions of hard-working people who make a fraction of what baseball players make, many of them in jobs that are far more important. However, few of those workers bring in the type of revenue baseball players do, so their wages are far less. Also, no one is willing to pay money to watch those workers do their jobs.
Baseball players deserve to earn what they do because they make ridiculous amounts of money for their employers. That’s how a free market works.
Had a 95 min. minute meeting today. More games to be canceled this week
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2drfischer@gmail.c
The next CBA and the future of MLB
In the meantime, I’m quickly losing interest. And when they do settle, and the status quo remains, I’ll have even less interest.
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GreenWeenie
- Posts: 4012
- Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:47 pm
The next CBA and the future of MLB
262A2B7079707875726D77400 wrote: Spring Training will become Summer Training.
You are probably correct because if the lockout goes much longer the Pirates could train in Pittsburgh rather than going to Bradenton. Just a thought, if the Owners and Players agreed to the 12 or 14 playoff expansion, why not reduce the regular season to 156 games , and begin the Wild Card Series the last week of September, which is now the final week of the regular season. I am sure the parties would not agree to it, but by eliminating six regular season games, teams would lose one home series and one away series . Possibly you could then play a best of 5 Wild Card Series, which would provide all Wild Card teams with some home games rather than the current proposal to play all 3 Wild Card games at the ballpark of the higher seed.
I recognize that, to get close to what the players are asking for, they'll almost certainly expand the playoffs. I hope for 12 teams because I think that it is better for the competition than 14 would be.
I think there is some "loss" if expanded playoffs would result in reducing RS games. Among the reasons that I enjoy discussing MLB as much as I do is because this is the one major league level team sport where the RS really does mean something.
These are obviously my opinions, but I consider the RS of the NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAAFB and NCAABB to be almost meaningless. The RS in the NFL has meaning only because they have far fewer games than the other three leagues. I wait for the playoffs to watch nearly all that I do.
With MLB, the RS means a lot more to get to the final 10. To expand PS play, they will almost surely have to eat into the RS. Otherwise, they would need to start....and, end.....in nearly freezing conditions. It isn't good for the players, the competition, or the fans.
You are probably correct because if the lockout goes much longer the Pirates could train in Pittsburgh rather than going to Bradenton. Just a thought, if the Owners and Players agreed to the 12 or 14 playoff expansion, why not reduce the regular season to 156 games , and begin the Wild Card Series the last week of September, which is now the final week of the regular season. I am sure the parties would not agree to it, but by eliminating six regular season games, teams would lose one home series and one away series . Possibly you could then play a best of 5 Wild Card Series, which would provide all Wild Card teams with some home games rather than the current proposal to play all 3 Wild Card games at the ballpark of the higher seed.
I recognize that, to get close to what the players are asking for, they'll almost certainly expand the playoffs. I hope for 12 teams because I think that it is better for the competition than 14 would be.
I think there is some "loss" if expanded playoffs would result in reducing RS games. Among the reasons that I enjoy discussing MLB as much as I do is because this is the one major league level team sport where the RS really does mean something.
These are obviously my opinions, but I consider the RS of the NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAAFB and NCAABB to be almost meaningless. The RS in the NFL has meaning only because they have far fewer games than the other three leagues. I wait for the playoffs to watch nearly all that I do.
With MLB, the RS means a lot more to get to the final 10. To expand PS play, they will almost surely have to eat into the RS. Otherwise, they would need to start....and, end.....in nearly freezing conditions. It isn't good for the players, the competition, or the fans.
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skinnyhorse
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:19 am
The next CBA and the future of MLB
6335233738223239342311363C30383D7F32510 wrote: We can see how MLB treats its fans, we've seen again and again how they treat their minor league players, is it any wonder the major league players need a union?
I think unions were necessary when employees were being mistreated. Back in the day workers worked 80 hour weeks no overtime no vacation, it's understandable in that situation. However the major league player are not being abused in fact they're treated like royalty. So it's evolved in greed and I'm sick of the greed. There are people who work hard play by the rules who are paying these jerks salaries so they can sell there services to the highest bidder and the cost is passed along to the fan. What a awful system for fans.
Unions are still necessary. If they disappeared, or were ruled to be illegal, workers would lose wages, benefits, safety measures, and anything else they’ve worked hard to gain.
I know you believe MLB players are greedy and overpaid, but the wages they receive are being paid by owners who’ve agreed to do so. Players may lose perhaps 60-70% of their wages if their union was eliminated. I’m sure you’d scream loudly if your wages fell that much.
The fact is that players earn what they do because they earn billions of dollars for the owners. The owners have agreed to pay the salaries they do. No one forces them.
I agree that there are millions of hard-working people who make a fraction of what baseball players make, many of them in jobs that are far more important. However, few of those workers bring in the type of revenue baseball players do, so their wages are far less. Also, no one is willing to pay money to watch those workers do their jobs.
Baseball players deserve to earn what they do because they make ridiculous amounts of money for their employers. That’s how a free market works.
I'm not sure how in the world you think the owners are paying these players. Fans are paying these players, anyone should be able to understand that simple concept. If that wasn't the case you wouldn't see baseball on TV or 40,000 seat stadiums, the owners could just have them entertain them. This isn't rocket science just use common sense.
I think unions were necessary when employees were being mistreated. Back in the day workers worked 80 hour weeks no overtime no vacation, it's understandable in that situation. However the major league player are not being abused in fact they're treated like royalty. So it's evolved in greed and I'm sick of the greed. There are people who work hard play by the rules who are paying these jerks salaries so they can sell there services to the highest bidder and the cost is passed along to the fan. What a awful system for fans.
Unions are still necessary. If they disappeared, or were ruled to be illegal, workers would lose wages, benefits, safety measures, and anything else they’ve worked hard to gain.
I know you believe MLB players are greedy and overpaid, but the wages they receive are being paid by owners who’ve agreed to do so. Players may lose perhaps 60-70% of their wages if their union was eliminated. I’m sure you’d scream loudly if your wages fell that much.
The fact is that players earn what they do because they earn billions of dollars for the owners. The owners have agreed to pay the salaries they do. No one forces them.
I agree that there are millions of hard-working people who make a fraction of what baseball players make, many of them in jobs that are far more important. However, few of those workers bring in the type of revenue baseball players do, so their wages are far less. Also, no one is willing to pay money to watch those workers do their jobs.
Baseball players deserve to earn what they do because they make ridiculous amounts of money for their employers. That’s how a free market works.
I'm not sure how in the world you think the owners are paying these players. Fans are paying these players, anyone should be able to understand that simple concept. If that wasn't the case you wouldn't see baseball on TV or 40,000 seat stadiums, the owners could just have them entertain them. This isn't rocket science just use common sense.