7161605741414D220 wrote: There has been a lot written about Mitch Keller within this group of posts, but as I think about his first two starts since retuning from Indy, I have to wonder about his future with the Pirates. I know his total amount of MLB innings and starts (30 starts 127 innings ) are not many, but if he continues to not show improvement how long can the Bucs send him out to start? My guess is they are going to let him remain in the rotation the remainder of the season, with the hope he can pitch and win a few games. If the results aren’t there, could they move on from him this offseason? When he pitches I think will this be the inning in which he will end up giving up a few runs. I guess in my opinion I have little or no confidence that he can get through an inning without surrendering any runs. No sure if it is his ability, mechanics or confidence, but it seems something is lacking.
one big critique I have seen of Keller on other boards is that his fastball (and other pitches) just don't have much movement. I don't think he can be successful at ML level without movement on his fastball. Do those of you that watch the games agree or disagree about Keller's pitches and movement?
I agree. I just don't see any particular "out pitch" in his repertoire. He walks batters and throws hittable strikes. When I watch him pitch I don't wonder why he's getting hit. I don't expect that his stuff will soon dominate hitters. He looks like what he is: a below average pitcher who is closer to a AAAA type than to a top of the rotation type. He has pitched 58 innings this year and been scored upon in 25 of those innings (43%). That's pretty bad when you're giving up runs in nearly half of your innings. And watching this guy whose best pitch seems to be a straight fastball, he's getting hit at what seems like the expected rate.
Even his AAA stats are unimpressive. Hs AAA career ERA is 3.86. The only thing impressive in AAA was a high K rate. He throws about 97 and overpowers some AAA batters but even at that level he was giving up almost as many hits as innings and averaging nearly 4 runs per 9 innings. He dominated through AA but seemed to have reached his limit at AAA.
After seeing Cole and Morton blossom after leaving, giving Glasnow away when they couldn't develop him, watching Kingham flame out and parting ways with Taillon after illness and injuries dominated his Pirate career, it seems like they used Keller to try to convince the fans that even more pitching was on the way. But nothing he has done after AA justifies the hype.
I have a feeling Mitch has next year here as a make or break season. He sucks right now and there has been nothing shown to believe he can be useful to us moving forward. However, who is he blocking? No one. Our rotation next year will be garbage again. Brault, Kuhl, Wilson, Brubaker and Keller/Yajure doesn't give me goosebumps. It gives me a massive headache. Say Brault and Wilson pitch well, then you have still massive question marks the rest of the rotation. If Keller was actually blocking someone, I would suggest he is done here. If Contreras or Priester and crew were close to knocking on the door, then ...
Ya I agree with all of that. I think he has a long chance next year, if only because there aren't exactly a ton of pitchers on the way. I like a lot of what we as a team are doing, but the pitching situation of guys close to the majors is pretty sucky still.
Keller
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Keller
7D4F43435765464F4247484F2E0 wrote: There has been a lot written about Mitch Keller within this group of posts, but as I think about his first two starts since retuning from Indy, I have to wonder about his future with the Pirates. I know his total amount of MLB innings and starts (30 starts 127 innings ) are not many, but if he continues to not show improvement how long can the Bucs send him out to start? My guess is they are going to let him remain in the rotation the remainder of the season, with the hope he can pitch and win a few games. If the results aren’t there, could they move on from him this offseason? When he pitches I think will this be the inning in which he will end up giving up a few runs. I guess in my opinion I have little or no confidence that he can get through an inning without surrendering any runs. No sure if it is his ability, mechanics or confidence, but it seems something is lacking.
one big critique I have seen of Keller on other boards is that his fastball (and other pitches) just don't have much movement. I don't think he can be successful at ML level without movement on his fastball. Do those of you that watch the games agree or disagree about Keller's pitches and movement?
I agree. I just don't see any particular "out pitch" in his repertoire. He walks batters and throws hittable strikes. When I watch him pitch I don't wonder why he's getting hit. I don't expect that his stuff will soon dominate hitters. He looks like what he is: a below average pitcher who is closer to a AAAA type than to a top of the rotation type. He has pitched 58 innings this year and been scored upon in 25 of those innings (43%). That's pretty bad when you're giving up runs in nearly half of your innings. And watching this guy whose best pitch seems to be a straight fastball, he's getting hit at what seems like the expected rate.
Even his AAA stats are unimpressive. Hs AAA career ERA is 3.86. The only thing impressive in AAA was a high K rate. He throws about 97 and overpowers some AAA batters but even at that level he was giving up almost as many hits as innings and averaging nearly 4 runs per 9 innings. He dominated through AA but seemed to have reached his limit at AAA.
After seeing Cole and Morton blossom after leaving, giving Glasnow away when they couldn't develop him, watching Kingham flame out and parting ways with Taillon after illness and injuries dominated his Pirate career, it seems like they used Keller to try to convince the fans that even more pitching was on the way. But nothing he has done after AA justifies the hype.
I have a feeling Mitch has next year here as a make or break season. He sucks right now and there has been nothing shown to believe he can be useful to us moving forward. However, who is he blocking? No one. Our rotation next year will be garbage again. Brault, Kuhl, Wilson, Brubaker and Keller/Yajure doesn't give me goosebumps. It gives me a massive headache. Say Brault and Wilson pitch well, then you have still massive question marks the rest of the rotation. If Keller was actually blocking someone, I would suggest he is done here. If Contreras or Priester and crew were close to knocking on the door, then ...
Ya I agree with all of that. I think he has a long chance next year, if only because there aren't exactly a ton of pitchers on the way. I like a lot of what we as a team are doing, but the pitching situation of guys close to the majors is pretty sucky still.
I was thinking about that today. The starting pitching is just very poor. Glad I could state that without cursing. No one on the current staff would be a 4 on a half decent club. Maybe not a 5
one big critique I have seen of Keller on other boards is that his fastball (and other pitches) just don't have much movement. I don't think he can be successful at ML level without movement on his fastball. Do those of you that watch the games agree or disagree about Keller's pitches and movement?
I agree. I just don't see any particular "out pitch" in his repertoire. He walks batters and throws hittable strikes. When I watch him pitch I don't wonder why he's getting hit. I don't expect that his stuff will soon dominate hitters. He looks like what he is: a below average pitcher who is closer to a AAAA type than to a top of the rotation type. He has pitched 58 innings this year and been scored upon in 25 of those innings (43%). That's pretty bad when you're giving up runs in nearly half of your innings. And watching this guy whose best pitch seems to be a straight fastball, he's getting hit at what seems like the expected rate.
Even his AAA stats are unimpressive. Hs AAA career ERA is 3.86. The only thing impressive in AAA was a high K rate. He throws about 97 and overpowers some AAA batters but even at that level he was giving up almost as many hits as innings and averaging nearly 4 runs per 9 innings. He dominated through AA but seemed to have reached his limit at AAA.
After seeing Cole and Morton blossom after leaving, giving Glasnow away when they couldn't develop him, watching Kingham flame out and parting ways with Taillon after illness and injuries dominated his Pirate career, it seems like they used Keller to try to convince the fans that even more pitching was on the way. But nothing he has done after AA justifies the hype.
I have a feeling Mitch has next year here as a make or break season. He sucks right now and there has been nothing shown to believe he can be useful to us moving forward. However, who is he blocking? No one. Our rotation next year will be garbage again. Brault, Kuhl, Wilson, Brubaker and Keller/Yajure doesn't give me goosebumps. It gives me a massive headache. Say Brault and Wilson pitch well, then you have still massive question marks the rest of the rotation. If Keller was actually blocking someone, I would suggest he is done here. If Contreras or Priester and crew were close to knocking on the door, then ...
Ya I agree with all of that. I think he has a long chance next year, if only because there aren't exactly a ton of pitchers on the way. I like a lot of what we as a team are doing, but the pitching situation of guys close to the majors is pretty sucky still.
I was thinking about that today. The starting pitching is just very poor. Glad I could state that without cursing. No one on the current staff would be a 4 on a half decent club. Maybe not a 5