54677B7A7971477A617D6661707C7B150 wrote:
PTBNLs - Nova. Why? He blocks the prospects and isn't an improvement on them. And, they need the ML experience.
I think that he's supposed to block the prospects, and that's why he was acquired. Other than Taillon, I think they want all the kids back at Indy. They can't send Frazier back while he's hitting .350, but if he slumps they will.
The thing that really bothers me is that Huntington talks time and time and time again about how me he values the prospects in this organization and how important they are. Then yesterday the Pirates for all practical purposes are basically held hostage by the BlueJays saying we will only take all of Liriano's salary since you're too cheap to do it and take a loss if you essentially hand us two of your top 10 prospects. Listening to Huntington talk yesterday about it after and trying to justify it sounded like Neal Huntington's lips moving but Bob Nutting actually doing the talking.
Last Minute Trade Buzz
Moderators: SammyKhalifa, Doc, Bobster
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CutchisaBoss
Last Minute Trade Buzz
So, this whole thing doesnt make a lot of sense.
I remember hearing throughout the year about Ray getting so mad at Liriano for not taking the coaching during sessions that he would literally have to leave and go back in the club house.
The only thing I can think is that the Pirates must have been so fed up with Liriano that they were going to do whatever it took to move on from him.
I remember hearing throughout the year about Ray getting so mad at Liriano for not taking the coaching during sessions that he would literally have to leave and go back in the club house.
The only thing I can think is that the Pirates must have been so fed up with Liriano that they were going to do whatever it took to move on from him.
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SammyKhalifa
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:19 am
Last Minute Trade Buzz
4B7D7C6B60617B694A677B7B080 wrote: So, this whole thing doesnt make a lot of sense.
I remember hearing throughout the year about Ray getting so mad at Liriano for not taking the coaching during sessions that he would literally have to leave and go back in the club house.
The only thing I can think is that the Pirates must have been so fed up with Liriano that they were going to do whatever it took to move on from him.
Question: If they put Liriano on waivers today, do you think someone would take him?
I remember hearing throughout the year about Ray getting so mad at Liriano for not taking the coaching during sessions that he would literally have to leave and go back in the club house.
The only thing I can think is that the Pirates must have been so fed up with Liriano that they were going to do whatever it took to move on from him.
Question: If they put Liriano on waivers today, do you think someone would take him?
Last Minute Trade Buzz
4E69787C79645B6F787979641D0 wrote: Is anyone still not convinced that after all these moves yesterday that winning is not this teams and this owners top priority when push comes to shove. I been saying that for awhile on here and get scolded and laughed at. But these moves yesterday absolutely proves this point to be true. This team would rather save money and at the same time do the unthinkable of pretty much bribing another team with 2 of your top 10 prospects just so they will eat a player you want to get rid of (Liriano's) entire salary. It's a disgrace and Huntington and this front office should be absolutely embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.
Totally agree and give you credit for not using the word "trades" for the obvious salary dump and the two deck shuffling moves with the NY teams where Nova and Bastardo have been recognized by both the fans and media as being useless.
Totally agree and give you credit for not using the word "trades" for the obvious salary dump and the two deck shuffling moves with the NY teams where Nova and Bastardo have been recognized by both the fans and media as being useless.
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SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
I still think it was about saving money and this organization under the ownership of Mr. Seven Springs will do whatever it takes to do so and will not take any kind of loss. Like I mentioned before it's still shocking to me that Huntington as much as he talks about how he values prospects and wont part with any, he essentially gave two of his top 10 prospects away as part of a bribe with the Jays so that they would pay all of Liriano's salary. Does this absolutely infuriate anyone else as much as it bothers the hell out of me??
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SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
4C7B6D6D6144616B0E0 wrote: Is anyone still not convinced that after all these moves yesterday that winning is not this teams and this owners top priority when push comes to shove. I been saying that for awhile on here and get scolded and laughed at. But these moves yesterday absolutely proves this point to be true. This team would rather save money and at the same time do the unthinkable of pretty much bribing another team with 2 of your top 10 prospects just so they will eat a player you want to get rid of (Liriano's) entire salary. It's a disgrace and Huntington and this front office should be absolutely embarrassed and ashamed of themselves.
Totally agree and give you credit for not using the word "trades" for the obvious salary dump and the two deck shuffling moves with the NY teams where Nova and Bastardo have been recognized by both the fans and media as being useless. And for Huntington to also come out and say we made these moves so that we can stay competitive for the rest of this season and improve the team going into 2017 is a bunch of crap too. How did these moves improve the team yesterday or going forward?? Nova is essentially a right handed version of Jeff Locke or Jon Niese. Hutchinson has some upside as he won 13 games in 2015 and struck out 185, but do you want him blocking guys like Glasnow and Kuhl?? And you essentially traded Walker for Bastardo a guy who you didn't resign in the offseason and admitted that getting Jon Niese was a mistake when everybody knew that already when the trade was made. A lot of people defend this team and give Huntington and this ownership group the benefit of the doubt based on what happened the last 3 seasons of making the playoffs and winning 98 games. That's all out the window after this season and cant be used as an excuse anymore.
Totally agree and give you credit for not using the word "trades" for the obvious salary dump and the two deck shuffling moves with the NY teams where Nova and Bastardo have been recognized by both the fans and media as being useless. And for Huntington to also come out and say we made these moves so that we can stay competitive for the rest of this season and improve the team going into 2017 is a bunch of crap too. How did these moves improve the team yesterday or going forward?? Nova is essentially a right handed version of Jeff Locke or Jon Niese. Hutchinson has some upside as he won 13 games in 2015 and struck out 185, but do you want him blocking guys like Glasnow and Kuhl?? And you essentially traded Walker for Bastardo a guy who you didn't resign in the offseason and admitted that getting Jon Niese was a mistake when everybody knew that already when the trade was made. A lot of people defend this team and give Huntington and this ownership group the benefit of the doubt based on what happened the last 3 seasons of making the playoffs and winning 98 games. That's all out the window after this season and cant be used as an excuse anymore.
Last Minute Trade Buzz
5C7B6A6E6B76497D6A6B6B760F0 wrote: I still think it was about saving money and this organization under the ownership of Mr. Seven Springs will do whatever it takes to do so and will not take any kind of loss. Like I mentioned before it's still shocking to me that Huntington as much as he talks about how he values prospects and wont part with any, he essentially gave two of his top 10 prospects away as part of a bribe with the Jays so that they would pay all of Liriano's salary. Does this absolutely infuriate anyone else as much as it bothers the hell out of me??
Yes!
I feel like a fool for having believed that the moves that the Pirates FO have made in the past year were based on a logic of prospect development and turnover at the MLB level and focused on a much better team in 2017. Well, blocking your own prospects with a mediocre rental like Ivan Nova and giving 4 of them away (2 in the top 10!!) reveals the truth about an unwavering prioritization of 'control' for financial considerations versus winning.
Yes!
I feel like a fool for having believed that the moves that the Pirates FO have made in the past year were based on a logic of prospect development and turnover at the MLB level and focused on a much better team in 2017. Well, blocking your own prospects with a mediocre rental like Ivan Nova and giving 4 of them away (2 in the top 10!!) reveals the truth about an unwavering prioritization of 'control' for financial considerations versus winning.
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Bobster21
Last Minute Trade Buzz
496E7F7B7E635C687F7E7E631A0 wrote: I still think it was about saving money and this organization under the ownership of Mr. Seven Springs will do whatever it takes to do so and will not take any kind of loss. Like I mentioned before it's still shocking to me that Huntington as much as he talks about how he values prospects and wont part with any, he essentially gave two of his top 10 prospects away as part of a bribe with the Jays so that they would pay all of Liriano's salary. Does this absolutely infuriate anyone else as much as it bothers the hell out of me??
I'm FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is WORSE than the Aramis Ramirez giveaway. In that instance, the league mandated they immediately cut salary because they were not in line with league payroll vs resources guidelines.
The Pirates were pleased to sign Liriano for 3 years and 39 million in 2015. At the beginning of this season, NH said the team payroll was not as high as they could have gone and that it gave them flexibility as the season progressed. Their payroll is 24th out of 30 teams. So there was no reason why they had to desperately shed salary. Had they offered to pay half of Liriano's salary, there's no way Toronto could have also demanded McGuire. But to the Pirates, it's all about saving money. NH says Ramirez and McGuire were expendable. Fine! Then trade them to fill a position of need; not to beg someone to pay a salary for them. Who's next? Maybe Newman and Kramer could entice someone to take another salary off their hands? How much is Kuhl worth? What kind of savings could they get from offering Bell or Meadows? Maybe they should mail coupons to every other team: "Free prospect with every player sale. Buy 1 get 1 free. Get 2 free with coupon!!!" This was a slap in the face to every loyal Pirate fan. They follow a 98-win season and early playoff exit with a cheapo pitching rotation and then give away prospects to shave off even more money from a payroll already one of the lowest in MLB. There can be no doubt this organization is CHEAP. CHEAP! CHEAP!! CHEAP!!! Winning is nice. But saving money is orgasmic to them. After this disgrace, no one will ever convince me this is interested in winning.
I'm FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is WORSE than the Aramis Ramirez giveaway. In that instance, the league mandated they immediately cut salary because they were not in line with league payroll vs resources guidelines.
The Pirates were pleased to sign Liriano for 3 years and 39 million in 2015. At the beginning of this season, NH said the team payroll was not as high as they could have gone and that it gave them flexibility as the season progressed. Their payroll is 24th out of 30 teams. So there was no reason why they had to desperately shed salary. Had they offered to pay half of Liriano's salary, there's no way Toronto could have also demanded McGuire. But to the Pirates, it's all about saving money. NH says Ramirez and McGuire were expendable. Fine! Then trade them to fill a position of need; not to beg someone to pay a salary for them. Who's next? Maybe Newman and Kramer could entice someone to take another salary off their hands? How much is Kuhl worth? What kind of savings could they get from offering Bell or Meadows? Maybe they should mail coupons to every other team: "Free prospect with every player sale. Buy 1 get 1 free. Get 2 free with coupon!!!" This was a slap in the face to every loyal Pirate fan. They follow a 98-win season and early playoff exit with a cheapo pitching rotation and then give away prospects to shave off even more money from a payroll already one of the lowest in MLB. There can be no doubt this organization is CHEAP. CHEAP! CHEAP!! CHEAP!!! Winning is nice. But saving money is orgasmic to them. After this disgrace, no one will ever convince me this is interested in winning.
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SteadyFreddy
Last Minute Trade Buzz
7551454D48240 wrote: I still think it was about saving money and this organization under the ownership of Mr. Seven Springs will do whatever it takes to do so and will not take any kind of loss. Like I mentioned before it's still shocking to me that Huntington as much as he talks about how he values prospects and wont part with any, he essentially gave two of his top 10 prospects away as part of a bribe with the Jays so that they would pay all of Liriano's salary. Does this absolutely infuriate anyone else as much as it bothers the hell out of me??
Yes!
I feel like a fool for having believed that the moves that the Pirates FO have made in the past year were based on a logic of prospect development and turnover at the MLB level and focused on a much better team in 2017. Well, blocking your own prospects with a mediocre rental like Ivan Nova and giving 4 of them away (2 in the top 10!!) reveals the truth about an unwavering prioritization of 'control' for financial considerations versus winning. I could see this coming last offseason as well. You knew when the Pirates didn't do anything of substance to help improve a 98 win team last season, especially when it came to the starting pitching staff, and were content with just going with guys like Locke, Niese, and Nicasio and just "hoping" that it worked out that this team was in trouble. Especially when we heard from the management team time and time again that when this team was winning and ready to win that they would invest a decent amount of money to improving the team on the field. Well if you weren't going to invest any money after winning 98 games last season and that wasn't good enough then when will you invest money with the team on the field??
Yes!
I feel like a fool for having believed that the moves that the Pirates FO have made in the past year were based on a logic of prospect development and turnover at the MLB level and focused on a much better team in 2017. Well, blocking your own prospects with a mediocre rental like Ivan Nova and giving 4 of them away (2 in the top 10!!) reveals the truth about an unwavering prioritization of 'control' for financial considerations versus winning. I could see this coming last offseason as well. You knew when the Pirates didn't do anything of substance to help improve a 98 win team last season, especially when it came to the starting pitching staff, and were content with just going with guys like Locke, Niese, and Nicasio and just "hoping" that it worked out that this team was in trouble. Especially when we heard from the management team time and time again that when this team was winning and ready to win that they would invest a decent amount of money to improving the team on the field. Well if you weren't going to invest any money after winning 98 games last season and that wasn't good enough then when will you invest money with the team on the field??
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rucker59@gmail.com
Last Minute Trade Buzz
093A2627242C1A273C203B3C2D2126480 wrote:
PTBNLs - Nova. Why? He blocks the prospects and isn't an improvement on them. And, they need the ML experience.
I think that he's supposed to block the prospects, and that's why he was acquired. Other than Taillon, I think they want all the kids back at Indy. They can't send Frazier back while he's hitting .350, but if he slumps they will.
We can absolutely crater the Pittsburgh Pirates but "hey, our farm system is #1 and we're going to do EVERYTHING we can to maintain that rank!"
I'm out of town but I can't imagine what's being said locally. The FO deserves any and all criticism.
And the club house, I can't imagine....
PTBNLs - Nova. Why? He blocks the prospects and isn't an improvement on them. And, they need the ML experience.
I think that he's supposed to block the prospects, and that's why he was acquired. Other than Taillon, I think they want all the kids back at Indy. They can't send Frazier back while he's hitting .350, but if he slumps they will.
We can absolutely crater the Pittsburgh Pirates but "hey, our farm system is #1 and we're going to do EVERYTHING we can to maintain that rank!"
I'm out of town but I can't imagine what's being said locally. The FO deserves any and all criticism.
And the club house, I can't imagine....